2008 cfb -- time to post my week 5 card so far

i don't think most people know how important love is to that ball st offense either....davis is nasty, but his targets other than love aren't even close to being as reliable. huge huge loss. the line is ridiculous, but i'm incapable of seeing this game without a subjective bias on kent state, who has handed me my ass....similar to your florida/ole miss situation...so pretty much disregard my thoughts on that game hahahahah. they'll be able to score on ball's defense...a lot...that's for sure. i may play the over


Yup , understand completely .. i am not getting in front of urban meyer train anymore. I think kent st just had a terrible defensive game last week in what was kind of a bad little spot for them. Also , lets face it , they have turned the ball over way way more times than average so far. The offense doesn't really lend itself to turnovers so while i dont think they are due bounces , they shouldn't suffer from turnovers every week as a result of system or quarterbacking. They succeeded against the more drop back qb's they faced this year but really sturggled stopping desourmeaux ( spelling ? ). Just believe the line is inflated and at a strange time considering the loss of a major part of the offense.
 
What I saw from West Virginia against Colorado was a great sign for this week. They got back to running like last year and were unstoppable and IMO will now be just as explosive as last year.

So what I'm pretty sure of is WVU is gonna put up 30+ easily I'd say in the 40s maybe 50s.

My concern coming into the season was defensively, they are young their but I actually thought they played decently vs. Colorado although one wonders how conservative Buffs went.

Marshall might put some points on the board that is a concern.

--I don't think all this chemistry issues will matter unless it is to the point that they don't try hard to win the game. WVU still played their hearts out vs. Colorado.

If the total isn't in the 60s I think the Over deserves a look.

Let's ride the Mountaineers Saturday Kyle



I think i saw some promise in the offense last week too and they seemed to get stronger as the game went along.... for all the discussion about the bad coaching , pat whites heart , player dissent and so on .. they had a great play call and a receiver open by literally 25 yards for the win and it was underthrown on the trick play. Connect there and they win.

Again , just so angry at having this much the worst of it ... a 1/2 point is worth roughly .05 units ... which means i have lost 0.30 units worth of value in the line ... and to early line movement. Hard for me to get past this right now. Hate myself.

With that said , there is a large talent disaprity and continuing with the line value that i see in this game ( despite how bad i did at getting a number ) , take a look at the smiss game .....they were in that -9 area at home to marshall ... west virginia hfa is greater than smiss ... making wvu just a -4 by power rating to smiss on a neutral ?? Obviously , there are matchup issues and other things that go into making a line but this spread is wierding me out. Again , early money is to be respected and it makes me think i am missing something badly here.

hope we cash.
 
Reminiscent of Bama losing Prothro a few years back. Went from scoring 35+ per game to less than 15 per game. I actually think that Love is more of a vital part of Ball's O than Prothro was to Bama. This could be catastrophic to this offense.


It has to hurt .. just have to determine how much. Certainly they shouldnt raise the line over a td after a good game against indiana while this guy gets knocked out for season ...
 
I think you guys are way overstating this.
Huge loss - yes.
But, Nate Davis is still a phenomenal athlete, and has other targets, including an all american te, and a rb averaging close to 6.0 ypc.
Yes, losing Love is a tremendous blow to the offense, but it's not catastrophic. That being said, going to be tough for Ball State not to come out a bit flat this week, it's gotta be on all of the players minds.


Nate Davis is a quality player and he will find success in that offense , and ball st will score .. but the defense is giving up about 21 first downs a game too. Off a huge win and kent getting destroyed might mean flat spot besides the injured player. plus this is a conference game we are talking about laying 17 with ball st in. Also have to remember they played without jarvis last week .. he should be back here .. i think.,... i think, anyway.
 
kyle,

can i get your thoughts on penn state/illinois?

thanks.

will get back to you , i promise .. i have thoughts on this game and how i think it plays out. just need to align them coherently.

Suspect you know the illinois club a lot better than i do but i will give my take in a day or two.
 
ok time for some information and analysis.

First tidbit to be aware of is that there is a strong likelihood of rain in the very northeast part of the country. It will mostly effect a lot of those fcs games up there with the ivy league schools and what not but it may also rear its ugly head in a few mainstream games. One of those games is western michigan at Temple which i have already played. This definitely lessens the value of that bet as the HUGE qb advantage could get mitigated by rain/wind. A few other games of note that are likely to be affected by weather are usf at ncstate and virginia at duke. Dogs increase in value in both of those games as well. Still quite a ways out from gameday and weather is always uncertain but you should atleast factor in what probability of weather you expect to see for those games. Would also check the clemson and s carolina home games as well.

Cincinnati -- I am loving this team in this spot at this spread. Akron is receiving a lot of undeseerved love in my opinion. I had this team rated as the worst club in the MAC conference this year in the preseason and i am unwilling at this point to concede that fact. Lets take a look at the matchup ....

Akron comes into this game at 2-2 with DD losses at wisconsin and home to ballst and DD wins at syracuse and at Army.

So their season is a tale of two cities in a way ... how they play vs the below average and how well they play vs the above average.

- Right now Akron is rated as one of the top pass defenses statistically as far as yards per game given up !!! Deceiving stat and don't let it fool you. Teams have actually been extremely efficient at passing against Akron but they have found themselves in situations where their opponents are not attempting passes, less than 20 attempts per game. When looking at past Akron games the comparable offense to cincy is ball state .... in that game ball state attempted 36 passes completing 24 of them for 300 yards. The yards against are skewed because their opponents did not attempt passes. Army attempted just 13 throws as they develoip their option attack and wisconsin got ahead very early and only attempted 10 passes the entire game. Syracuse threw for just 135 against them but the orange have one of the most anemic pass offenses in the country as well and since the cuse was averaging over 5 yards a carry against that akron rush defense there wasn't much need to throw to get the job done , other than to save time as cuse was behind early in that game. Thats the rub , cincy is going to toss it around a bit as they average over 33 attempts per game. They threw for 241 vs miami oh and 239 at oklahoma. So pretty impressive when you consider that those are two very good pass defenses.

The rush defense is a bad trend for akron as well .. cuse got 5.1 a carry and wiscy got 6.4 a carry and ballst got 4.3 a carry and army 3.3 a carry.
Cincy is averaging 4.3 a carry and again that was against some tough defenses and if you take the 25+ yards of sacks out of the oklahoma game you find that they actually rushed it for 3.4 a carry from their two main rb threats.

So i think the cincy balance is going to be VERY tough for akron to defend. This isn't army or syracuse.

When akron has the ball they are going to have to throw. Cincy is giving up less than two yards per carry against teams not named oklahoma and held OU under their normal yds/carry numbers. Akron has rushed for 4.2 a carry so far but against bottom feeding rush defenses of cuse , ballst and Army. Different animal here. And i think cincy can have success forcing turnovers with a secondary that Phil steele ahs rated as number one in the conference and listed in his top 25 in the nation , preseason.

Akron has had some success throwing the football and surprisingly , cincy has struggled holding opponents down in the passing game so far but i think akron and jacquemain will struggle some here.

lets look at some other factors.

Is cincinnati looking ahead ? I would think not. They do have a midweek road test at marshall on deck.

How much is home field advantage worth for akron ? Not much. For their home game against ball state akron had just over 9000 fans at the game ... there may end up being more bearcat fans in the stands than zips fans.

Is there a coaching advantage ? Yes. While i actually like jd brookhart of akron ( he covers a lot :) ) , Kelly is one of the better coaches in the nation in my estimation. He reminds me of richt in that he really gets his teams up for road games. Last year this team was 5-1 ATS on the road and won tough games vs tough opponents at rutgers and at usf. In Kellys tenure at central michigan his team was 10-6-1 ATS on the road as well. Which brings me to another point ... kelly is very familiar with the mac and akron. He was 2-0 ATS against akron at cmich with straight up wins as a dog in both games including a 31-17 win as an 11 point underdog. Since taking over the reigns as bearcat HC , kelly has played vs the mac twice and won by a combined 92-30 score.

Are there any other things that pop out here from a handicapping perspective ? yes ... punting. Akron benefited from bad punting in the army game. Take away Army's lone good punt and the black knights averaged just over 27 yards a punt which set akron up with a lot of shorter fields. The cincy kicker HUBER is simply a beast , averaging 47 a kick and it is not a fluke. This kid has power in that leg. The akron kid averages just over 37 yards a kick so we are looking at 10 yards of field postion on punting exchanges and have the kicker who can completely change field position with one boot. I don't expect to see the cincy punter much but if we do he can blast it. Now throw in the fact aht cincy has a great special teams return game and the akron fg kicker is just 4-7 and there is incredible advantage in ST for this game.

A lot to like here with cincinnati in my opinion.....
 
ok time for some information and analysis.

First tidbit to be aware of is that there is a strong likelihood of rain in the very northeast part of the country. It will mostly effect a lot of those fcs games up there with the ivy league schools and what not but it may also rear its ugly head in a few mainstream games. One of those games is western michigan at Temple which i have already played. This definitely lessens the value of that bet as the HUGE qb advantage could get mitigated by rain/wind. A few other games of note that are likely to be affected by weather are usf at ncstate and virginia at duke. Dogs increase in value in both of those games as well. Still quite a ways out from gameday and weather is always uncertain but you should atleast factor in what probability of weather you expect to see for those games. Would also check the clemson and s carolina home games as well.

Cincinnati -- I am loving this team in this spot at this spread. Akron is receiving a lot of undeseerved love in my opinion. I had this team rated as the worst club in the MAC conference this year in the preseason and i am unwilling at this point to concede that fact. Lets take a look at the matchup ....

Akron comes into this game at 2-2 with DD losses at wisconsin and home to ballst and DD wins at syracuse and at Army.

So their season is a tale of two cities in a way ... how they play vs the below average and how well they play vs the above average.

- Right now Akron is rated as one of the top pass defenses statistically as far as yards per game given up !!! Deceiving stat and don't let it fool you. Teams have actually been extremely efficient at passing against Akron but they have found themselves in situations where their opponents are not attempting passes, less than 20 attempts per game. When looking at past Akron games the comparable offense to cincy is ball state .... in that game ball state attempted 36 passes completing 24 of them for 300 yards. The yards against are skewed because their opponents did not attempt passes. Army attempted just 13 throws as they develoip their option attack and wisconsin got ahead very early and only attempted 10 passes the entire game. Syracuse threw for just 135 against them but the orange have one of the most anemic pass offenses in the country as well and since the cuse was averaging over 5 yards a carry against that akron rush defense there wasn't much need to throw to get the job done , other than to save time as cuse was behind early in that game. Thats the rub , cincy is going to toss it around a bit as they average over 33 attempts per game. They threw for 241 vs miami oh and 239 at oklahoma. So pretty impressive when you consider that those are two very good pass defenses.

The rush defense is a bad trend for akron as well .. cuse got 5.1 a carry and wiscy got 6.4 a carry and ballst got 4.3 a carry and army 3.3 a carry.
Cincy is averaging 4.3 a carry and again that was against some tough defenses and if you take the 25+ yards of sacks out of the oklahoma game you find that they actually rushed it for 3.4 a carry from their two main rb threats.

So i think the cincy balance is going to be VERY tough for akron to defend. This isn't army or syracuse.

When akron has the ball they are going to have to throw. Cincy is giving up less than two yards per carry against teams not named oklahoma and held OU under their normal yds/carry numbers. Akron has rushed for 4.2 a carry so far but against bottom feeding rush defenses of cuse , ballst and Army. Different animal here. And i think cincy can have success forcing turnovers with a secondary that Phil steele ahs rated as number one in the conference and listed in his top 25 in the nation , preseason.

Akron has had some success throwing the football and surprisingly , cincy has struggled holding opponents down in the passing game so far but i think akron and jacquemain will struggle some here.

lets look at some other factors.

Is cincinnati looking ahead ? I would think not. They do have a midweek road test at marshall on deck.

How much is home field advantage worth for akron ? Not much. For their home game against ball state akron had just over 9000 fans at the game ... there may end up being more bearcat fans in the stands than zips fans.

Is there a coaching advantage ? Yes. While i actually like jd brookhart of akron ( he covers a lot :) ) , Kelly is one of the better coaches in the nation in my estimation. He reminds me of richt in that he really gets his teams up for road games. Last year this team was 5-1 ATS on the road and won tough games vs tough opponents at rutgers and at usf. In Kellys tenure at central michigan his team was 10-6-1 ATS on the road as well. Which brings me to another point ... kelly is very familiar with the mac and akron. He was 2-0 ATS against akron at cmich with straight up wins as a dog in both games including a 31-17 win as an 11 point underdog. Since taking over the reigns as bearcat HC , kelly has played vs the mac twice and won by a combined 92-30 score.

Are there any other things that pop out here from a handicapping perspective ? yes ... punting. Akron benefited from bad punting in the army game. Take away Army's lone good punt and the black knights averaged just over 27 yards a punt which set akron up with a lot of shorter fields. The cincy kicker HUBER is simply a beast , averaging 47 a kick and it is not a fluke. This kid has power in that leg. The akron kid averages just over 37 yards a kick so we are looking at 10 yards of field postion on punting exchanges and have the kicker who can completely change field position with one boot. I don't expect to see the cincy punter much but if we do he can blast it. Now throw in the fact aht cincy has a great special teams return game and the akron fg kicker is just 4-7 and there is incredible advantage in ST for this game.

A lot to like here with cincinnati in my opinion.....

Amazing post Kyle, :shake:. Broke this one down quick last night, and liked it.
 
Alright lets get some thoughts on the Arkansas game.

Lets get line value out of the way , right off the bat. I am sure that I mentioned this earlier in the thread but how can Arkansas be 28 point dogs for this game. The game was sitting at 24 prior to postponement and now it is 4 points higher. I expected the line to be LOWER for the rescheduled event before the two teams played their respective games last week. My reasoning is that this is a somewhat inexperienced Arkansas team as a whole and it is learning new systems under HC petrino. I really felt that an extra game under their belt against a quality opponent like Alabama would benefit them a lot. Now , after getting pummeled in their game and Mac Brown and company covering yet again , I understand why it did not go down … but I never would have dreamed at seeing a 28 here. Alabama was -8.5 to -9 at Arkansas last week and now texas is -28 ?? Alabama is +6.5 at georgia this week …wonder how big a favorite they make TEXAS over Bama ?!?!?!?!?!?! So the line makes absolutely no sense , or if you prefer … it holds significant value on its face prior to looking game over at all. Just the same , lets look at the matchup

What I see here is a nice matchup for what Arkansas likes to do offensively vs. what texas does the least well defensively ( sometimes I think the longhorn secondary gets harsh criticism because the rush defense is so good that teams throw more and texas commit’s a lot of guys to run stopping ) . Texas is giving up a pretty big 274 yards per game passing so far. They have faced some very tough QB’s though in rusty smith , trevor vittatoe and clement. But the horns do not get pass relief here. Arkansas is throwing the ball 40 times per game and for over 285 yards per game , and are getting better each week. Casey Dick gave up two int for td last week ( one he was just trying to throw away I think and misjudged it ) and if the razorbacks throw another 40 attempts in this game he rates to throw atleast one pick against the athletes and schemes that texas will throw at him. But one thing Arkansas does really well is utilize the tight ends and backs out of the backfield to move the chains. And that is one problem that Texas has had this year … defending the tight end. The Rice tight ends combined for 10 catches , the utep tight ends combined for 4 catches and the FAU tight ends combined for 7 catches. So you have to expect this to be something that the Arkansas staff can exploit a little bit for this game as the Arkansas TE is the leading pass catcher so far this season.. Also , Smith has been running hard for the razorbacks to start the season , averaging 6.0 yards per carry. Now , I doubt that Arkansas has that kind of success in the run game , or very much success in the run game for that matter ,,, but if texas over compensates for Petrino run/pass ratio then you could see Smith have a ok day.

Where Arkansas will really struggle is stopping the texas attack. With the way that texas recruits offensive linemen it is no wonder that they are consistently near the top in rushing…. That coupled with a history of vanilla smash mouth offense. It is the same this year with Texas averaging over 5 yards per carry to start the season. But lets face some facts here as well … utep defense is atrocious , rice defense is terrible and FAU defense has been consistently underachieving each and every week to date. Arkansas has much better talent for Texas to try and just run over. In fact , I think you would have to consider the defensive line to be the strength of this Arkansas team. The average yards per carry given up by this Arkansas defense is skewed from two long runs in the Bama game that combined for 149 yards. They gave up under 4 yards per carry against the previous two opponents. I suspect that Texas will get theirs to a certain extent but rest assured that this is easily the toughest rush defense that the horns have faced so far. Similarly I would not put much into the Arkansas pass defense statistics. They look good but with ulm and western Illinois as opponents and with BAMA having a huge early lead and not needing to throw , we have to take it with a grain of salt. Colt McCoy is a gamer and has experience. The athletes Texas has are tough to control and the horns should move the ball on the razorbacks. I just don’t think they score enough.

I mean , lets look at the bama game …Arkansas lost 49-14 … by 35 points. Brutal … but it wasn’t because of complete physical domination , it was because of big plays. Bama had two interceptions for td and also had the two huge runs I mentioned above. Bama only had 15 first downs and if you take away those two plays ( I know you can’t really but follow my point ) the bama offense had just 250 or so yards of offense. In other words , in order to lose by 35 the razorbacks had to give up two huge runs , and two interceptions for scores. I like that Arkansas has experience with the passing game as it gives me a good chance at a backdoor cover in the event the game does get out of hand.
I think the book is tired of losing money on the longhorns and we get a good number because of it. Arkansas is getting lumped in with mid level sunbelt teams and conference usa teams with this line and I just don’t feel that is an accurate assessment of the talent level of this team.

Too many points.
 
You sure are serious about your 5 hours of sleep.

That truly is the heart of a champion.


And with that ... time to catch some more sleep :cheers:


Did throw a bone for you to consider in your fcs games in the northeast this week , hoops.

Also pushing for your idea for the additional forum.

catch up with more thoughts later today. hope i am awake for totals openers.
 
I am starting to churn out some numbers for those games as I speak.

But thanks for the heads up. It will be interesting to see how the forecast changes as the week progresses, but catching a bunch of points with a running team will be valuable.

And I really think that hte new forum will be very beneficial.

Nite nite.
 
agree the line is out of control, and that was an outstanding write-up...you pretty much convinced me that it's the right side. seems like everytime i play the points in a situation like this i get burned, because i think you can make a pretty good case of getting 4 tds in any matchup.

in trying to play devil's advocate a little bit, and you touched on this...i think that bama probably COULD have controlled the game and first downed arky to death if the game went that way, but the big plays allowed them to kind of just lay back in a rout with their feet up. when a game is relatively close, i absolutely agree with looking at some things like that, but a game is a blowout like that, you're not getting the other sides' best effort, gameplan, etc because they simply don't need it to win....therefore i don't think you can hold a lot of weight to that...and you acknowledged it a little bit too so it doesn't seem like you are...just reiterating

you did a great job of pointing out a strength in arky through the mess they've been and how they are likely going to gameplan against the horns with the tight end. i haven't seen much from arky, but i never would have guessed they have that strength because when they're getting dominated it's tough to see through to that kind of thing. i could prob argue that clement and vittatoe are both better than dick from what i've seen from him, but i don't think he could possibly have a worse game than he did last week, can he?

texas is probably looking at this game as a tune-up type game considering the stretch of the next three weeks wouldn't you think, vk? maybe considered a lookahead, but i don't know for some reason it just has a different feel to me. and they scare me quite frankly because they're kind of flying under the national radar right now and that offense looks pretty good. don't think i'm ready to bet against this sqaud, especially when they're clearly the superior team and at home...

absolutely agree on akron/cinci...and good point about the fans--it will definitely be 70/30 in favor of cinci. if brookhart keeps this one close with the talent he has and what they've been able to do already this year with that talent...he needs to be hired outside of the mac immediately. i think this is just akron outperforming some early lines because cinci should dominate them in almost every category, and unlike other teams would be, they'll be focused because of kelly it's an in-state opponent....i may take a look at cinci at halftime hoping that akron keeps it somewhat close in the first half.
 
Which brings me to another point ... kelly is very familiar with the mac and akron. He was 2-0 ATS against akron at cmich with straight up wins as a dog in both games including a 31-17 win as an 11 point underdog. Since taking over the reigns as bearcat HC , kelly has played vs the mac twice and won by a combined 92-30 score.

Great point.
 
Ok wanted to get to the Illinois at penn state thoughts. I will try to be more concise and coherent . Unless I see a total I like , I will not be involved in the game but it is a game that I looked at closely ( I like DD conference dogs ) before deciding to avoid. Will give some bullet points about this game, with some insight along the way.

--Weather -For anyone wanting to bet Penn State be aware that there is possible weather issues for this game. I always take that into consideration but it is especially true for those considering a wager on the large favorite. Good chance that the game is played free of rain/wind but it is one of the more probable to be touched this week. Even a small rain can do a lot as far as eliminating the energy in happy valley and reducing the HFA.

--The line-- A couple things to note here. It is 14.5 most places right now. Obviously you need to win by three scores to cover as a penn st backer and need a 4 score lead to safely not sweat the backdoor. Illinois does have a backdoor offense. The line is also telling in where the books currently view these two teams right now. Remember the week 1 matchup vs. Missouri for Illinois. The spread in that game indicates either that penn st is right on par with Missouri or that Illinois is far less than advertised preseason. It may also just be the fact that penn st has been rolling and Illinois struggled vs. ULL two weeks ago. But again , there is a slight difference in my mind between DD favorites and DD conference favorites. You have to be that much better to warrant the line in conference as opposed to out of conference due to familiarity. Just my opinion there.

--Last years game --level of relevance here is mitigated , feel free to skip over. While penn state ran a different offense ( less explosive ) last year and Mendenhall and a strong OL made Illinois a much better offensive team than what they sport this year the stats from the 7 point loss at Illinois last year are not bad for penn st. The lions out first downed Illinois 18-17 ,and out gained them 427-336 . So how did Illinois win the game 27-20. A couple of things happened. The first thing that happened was the lions driving the field against Illinois from inside their own 20 to a first and goal scenario where they settled for a FG. Benn returned the kickoff for a td. This was huge. After a penn st three-and-out Illinois used a good mix of Mendenhall , juice rushes and Benn completion to score a td and go up 14-3. In certain matchups I really feel it is important which team takes the early lead beyond the obvious that they are leading. Illinois was solid on defense and loved to pound you with the running game. Penn st at the time was using the same philosophy and did not have the high powered passing attack that they have shown this year. They finished 75<SUP>th</SUP> in passing. So the early lead here played right into what Illinois wanted and likes to do and perfectly against what penn state was all about last year. After cutting the lead to 14-10 , the lions fumbled on their own side of the 50 and Illinois capitalized and led 21-17 at halftime after a quick strike drive by penn st. Anthony morelli took over from here …. Sorry to his friends and family but he was intercepted on 3<SUP>rd</SUP> and 4 from Illinois 21 yard line , intercepted on 3<SUP>rd</SUP> and 10 from the illini 18 , fumbled on 4<SUP>th</SUP> and 13 after a 13 yard rush on a play started at illini 22 and recovered at the illini 13 by lehman , and took a sack in a key spot in their last drive before throwing it up for grabs for yet another illini interception. So turnovers and the early KO return for td were huge in this game. The thing here is that a lot of the key elements to last years game and Illinois success in that game are gone now … morelli addition by subtraction , Mendenhall and his offensive line studs ,and lehman ( who was a monster that game ) are all gone now and penn st is running a new system.

-- The spot -- penn state comes off home game vs. temple with at purdue on deck and this marks conference opener and revenge from last year. Illinois has bad history at happy valley losing 12-26 , 10-63 , 25-39 , and 0-27 the last four times they have played there… they were 2-2 ATS in those games however. Illinois is coming off a bad game vs. ULL and a bye week and this marks their conference opener as well and travel to Michigan the following week. Both teams should be well prepared for this game and focused on task at hand. Slight spot edge to penn state as it is revenge and a night game. Again if it is raining it greatly diminished what penn st likes to do offensively and will mitigate crowd involvement so keep eye on weather for this one.

--Concerns for Illinois --I am willing to give Illinois a pass for the ragin cajun game but as I looked over the first few weeks of the year I am struck by just how awful the Illinois pass defense has been. Against the two fbs schools they played the QB’s went a combined 51 of 70 in the passing game. Granted it was daniel and desormeaux but when they are facing an offense that gets 265 thru the air a game so far it is a concern that illini backers have to take into consideration. Another concern that I have is that penn state has already recorded 14 sacks this year and Illinois had a really hard time blocking ULL blitz packages two weeks ago. Juice is going to make some plays that save a team from having more sacks allowed and sometimes will take a sack where a less mobile qb would just throw it away but protecting juice is a big concern as he doesn’t make the best of decisions with the ball when unrushed. I also am unclear on what Illinois’ identity is as an offensive football team right now. They only mustered 81 yards and 2.3 a carry against a Missouri rush defense that can be taken advantage of. They have to be VERY balanced in this game to compete and have to have some success running on the lions. It wasn’t for lack of trying either as they rushed it 35 times in that game. Next concern for me is discipline and penalties. In the two games vs. fbs schools Illinois had 17 penalties for 176 yards. That is just brutal and now they are going to play their first game in an extremely hostile environment all year. I was on record in the offseason as saying that this Illinois team despite the great zook recruiting classes was going to be a bit down compared to last year. I felt that it went beyond the loss of Mendenhall that everyone points to and that they would miss lehman and and some of those key olinemen. I haven’t seen much from them to dissuade me from that. I have not seen a ton of Illinois football this year so a lot of what I am looking at is based on box scores and articles. I am not sure at this point how correctable some of these penalties , turnovers and coverage issues are. Throw in the wide disparity with penn st level of play at home compared to on the road .

--concerns with pennst -- The first thing that pops out at me is this is their first real game. Illinois is far better battle tested at this point. Coastal carolina and Syracuse are cupcakes du jour and temple lost dimichele early in the game this past Saturday which eliminated any chance of an already demoralized temple squad of competing. And what a terrible spot for Oregon st traveling to the east with a brand new front seven defensively. So I am concerned that pennst is having a lot of cupcakes but hasn’t had to eat any red meat yet. And the concern is warranted by past performance from this particular program. Last year they beat their cupcakes 135-34 in three games … but it didn’t necessarily translate into conference play. Illinois will mark the best offense and best defense that the lions have faced all year. The offense has benefited from defensive domination in most games and the lone offensive team they faced ( oregonst ) had success through the air vs. them. Penn st has not had to face a mobile qb this year and that is what gave the penn st defense some trouble last year. AS mentioned above I have concerns regarding the weather because I don’t believe that without the threat of the passing game that penn st can line up and physically dominate the illini. This is first big game start and first conference start for clark I believe and that concerns me as well. Throw in that Illinois has gotten up for road games. In 2007 they played mizzu tough in stlouis , dominated at the cuse , whipped Indiana in Bloomington , played even with iowa in iowa city , crushed minny in the dome , and beat tosu at the shoe. Illinois was a group of road warriors. They didn’t perform badly in stlouis this year vs. a very tough tigers team either. So that concerns me if I am a penn st backer. Let me take this moment to say that I don’t think it is wise to lay over two td with teams that cant physically dominate their opponent. If you were to look at similarly lined games from 10-17 pts you will see a dominance physically with superior talent that doesn’t exist here. Wake over navy , wvu over marhsall , pitt over cuse , cincy over akron , okie st over troy etc etc .. the games where that does not exist look like live dogs vs. the number … tcu , kent st ,Maryland etc.
--how does the game play out ? -- Much like last year , I truly believe that the first quarter will play a huge role in how this game unfolds. Illinois needs to survive it for two obvious reasons … 1. To prevent it from becoming a game where Juice has to make things happen and force throws with his inaccurate arm as opposed to picking and choosing his spots along with the need to run the football and shorten the game. 2. Clark and pennst havent been tested. They might be great in the front running role when playing the syracuses , coastal Carolinas , and temples of the world but can they perform to the highest levels under pressure.? I think Illinois will have way more success offensively than any previous opponent which means the offensive production we have seen from pennst to date should decrease dramatically in this one. Illinois is capable of putting a few drives together that keep the defense rested and in a closer game the TRUE paterno will show up and the play calling will be far more conservative than what we have seen to date. A key will be progress of the Illinois offensive line over the bye week and preparation for what pennst does defensively. If they can give juice the time to look for benn or to make a play with his feet , he can convert on third down for them. Defensively I think Illinois has some challenges here but I also feel the DL is a lot better than it has shown early. If the defensive line can do a good job of containing the run which they are capable of , clark will be throwing into coverage packages that he has had the benefit of avoiding the first few weeks and we could see a key turnover somewhere. If it is raining and the home field is mitigated and the big advantage for pennst pass offense vs. Illinois pass defense is lessened I think there is value on the Illinois side of this game. In a conference game for Illinois I have to ask myself whether I believe that pennst will be ahead by 22 or more late in the game in order for me to lay over two td ….. And while its possible I just don’t see it. I am making a conscience effort to not get involved against the covering machine teams right now without incredible cause and there are certainly some matchup advantages for pennst on the field that they can exploit to cover this number. I see a 34-21 type game here in good weather and a 26-17 type game in bad weather so I lean Illinois. Love this penn st team right now and fully expect them to win but winning and covering are two different animals and its hard to whip top recruits with speed like Illinois has , with a more experienced qb in a conference game by a ton of points without winning the turnover battle.

No play for me and I think I have made a case for either side in this game. Very interested in your thoughts on this game nrrop as I know how closely you follow the big ten and ILL in particular.

I would expect zook to pick his poison … focus on taking away atleast one aspect of the pennst offense , either the rush or the pass….. Wondering what you see them doing defensively.
 
Added michigan state at indiana over 48.5 today. jsut missed the 48 by a few seconds , ,,,, it is what it is.... and a microcosm of what the last few days have been like for me in the sports betting work.

Bottom line here is that i think indiana can be trusted on two levels ... one to score at home. They avaraged about 28 a game last year or so in conference home games. I also think they can be trusted to get pounded by the physical team that michigan st brings to town and after watching nate davis tear them apart , i think hoyer can do his share of damage as well. These two teams ahve combined for 50 or more points each of the last four years and dont see why not here. Rates to be higher scoring in my eyes with the venue in indiana where the track is faster and the dog is more likely to score.
 
Just made through page 2 - you made a much better case for Cincy than I did. Enjoyed the PSU thoughts as well - that is a game that I have penciled in as a must watch this Saturday.

Again, great stuff and we are on much of the same this week, so let's turn it around.

Why does the WVU line keep going down? This could make for an interesting line for Cincy at Marshall next week. Based on this line it would have to be Cincy -4 or so , right?
 
great thoughts on PSU..I believe in this PSU team though...very under the radar..Illinois misses Mendenhall and Lehman big time. I think PSU rolls here, but kinda hesitant to pull the trigger just yet.
 
kyle,

agree with many of your points regarding Indiana...Indiana's the only way I could play the game, just trying to find out who else scores besides Lewis and Starr for Indiana...maybe Powers or Thigpen?...I think their D will come to play and Hoyer is shaky on the road for sure...the Indiana run D should do a descent job vs. Ringer, but if Indiana struggles offensively will we see the same defensive breakdown in the fourth quarter that we did vs. Ball St.?...this could help the over though I guess...just throwing my thoughts out there as I've thought about this one some more...
 
I think you guys are way overstating this.
Huge loss - yes.
But, Nate Davis is still a phenomenal athlete, and has other targets, including an all american te, and a rb averaging close to 6.0 ypc.
Yes, losing Love is a tremendous blow to the offense, but it's not catastrophic. That being said, going to be tough for Ball State not to come out a bit flat this week, it's gotta be on all of the players minds.

Hey Kyle, if you could figure out Kent Stat for me I'd appreciate it. :hang:

This team is like the MAC as a conference, unpredictable. One of the basic fundamental rules of capping is take a matchup with a good rush offense vs. a poor rush defense. And with Kent State it always seems to fail. Last week vs. Lafayette an example and I know last year I took them vs. BG or somebody and they blew it.

--I'd say once again Kent State should run on what I perceive to be the weakness of the Ball State D, rush defense. They do have an option attack and if it presents some of the similarities Navy has which has given Ball State a handful and more, you have to like that. They will take time off the clock with the ground game and keep that potent Cardinal offense off the field.

Ball Sate played @ Akron earlier in the year and won by 17. The passing was exactly 300 each and rushing 80 yards more for Ball State with Akron having 5 TO's to Ball State's 2. If they give that same kind of effort I think Kent State looks really good here. I know Kent State is going to be pumped up after that debacle, and situationally looks really good here. Ball State is part of the crazy MAC and it's not the profile for a team to be consistently dominate. And Ball State might linger after the big win and Love injury.

--But, look out for Myles Trempe, who had a big TD last week vs. IU and 80 yards. 6 foot 4 target, leaper former all state basketball player. This is the guy who is going to get increased role due to Dante Love injury. No Love but he is capable. Great kid I knew growing up from Saint Paris Graham high school in Ohio.
 
excellent thoughts on that penn state game, and i agree 100% with almost everything you said. you made a case for both sides, but i still feel more confident in my ill play after reading it, which is good.

o-state...i hear ya...usually just when you write a mac team off is when they cover...wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if kent state wins straight up this week after taking my money for 3 straight lined games
 
--The line-- A couple things to note here. It is 14.5 most places right now. Obviously you need to win by three scores to cover as a penn st backer and need a 4 score lead to safely not sweat the backdoor. Illinois does have a backdoor offense. The line is also telling in where the books currently view these two teams right now. Remember the week 1 matchup vs. Missouri for Illinois. The spread in that game indicates either that penn st is right on par with Missouri or that Illinois is far less than advertised preseason. It may also just be the fact that penn st has been rolling and Illinois struggled vs. ULL two weeks ago. But again , there is a slight difference in my mind between DD favorites and DD conference favorites. You have to be that much better to warrant the line in conference as opposed to out of conference due to familiarity. Just my opinion there.

This line is flat out puzzling. This is also next to Uconn/Louisville, the 2nd largest difference in SOS opponents this year. Illinois #22, PSU #97 w/ some convincing wins. Wasn't Oregon State +16.5 here in this spot? So a Big 10 team w/ some experience is only two points less here? Illinois hasn't showed an ounce of what it can do except for the Mizzou game, and you'd have to think that Penn State has showed just about everything and anything trying to adjust to the new offense and it's players.
 
--Last years game --level of relevance here is mitigated , feel free to skip over. While penn state ran a different offense ( less explosive ) last year and Mendenhall and a strong OL made Illinois a much better offensive team than what they sport this year the stats from the 7 point loss at Illinois last year are not bad for penn st. The lions out first downed Illinois 18-17 ,and out gained them 427-336 . So how did Illinois win the game 27-20. A couple of things happened. The first thing that happened was the lions driving the field against Illinois from inside their own 20 to a first and goal scenario where they settled for a FG. Benn returned the kickoff for a td. This was huge. After a penn st three-and-out Illinois used a good mix of Mendenhall , juice rushes and Benn completion to score a td and go up 14-3. In certain matchups I really feel it is important which team takes the early lead beyond the obvious that they are leading. Illinois was solid on defense and loved to pound you with the running game. Penn st at the time was using the same philosophy and did not have the high powered passing attack that they have shown this year. They finished 75<SUP>th</SUP> in passing. So the early lead here played right into what Illinois wanted and likes to do and perfectly against what penn state was all about last year. After cutting the lead to 14-10 , the lions fumbled on their own side of the 50 and Illinois capitalized and led 21-17 at halftime after a quick strike drive by penn st. Anthony morelli took over from here …. Sorry to his friends and family but he was intercepted on 3<SUP>rd</SUP> and 4 from Illinois 21 yard line , intercepted on 3<SUP>rd</SUP> and 10 from the illini 18 , fumbled on 4<SUP>th</SUP> and 13 after a 13 yard rush on a play started at illini 22 and recovered at the illini 13 by lehman , and took a sack in a key spot in their last drive before throwing it up for grabs for yet another illini interception. So turnovers and the early KO return for td were huge in this game. The thing here is that a lot of the key elements to last years game and Illinois success in that game are gone now … morelli addition by subtraction , Mendenhall and his offensive line studs ,and lehman ( who was a monster that game ) are all gone now and penn st is running a new system.

Having attended last year's game, when everyone left the stadium, we finally had a glimpse of wow, Illinois Football is back on the map. Then we beat Wisconsin, and then we dropped two dumb fucking games. Thing is, you said it best. We shouldn't have won the PSU game last year, but the win gave this team more confidence than anything, which helped them the rest of the year.
 
-- The spot -- penn state comes off home game vs. temple with at purdue on deck and this marks conference opener and revenge from last year. Illinois has bad history at happy valley losing 12-26 , 10-63 , 25-39 , and 0-27 the last four times they have played there… they were 2-2 ATS in those games however. Illinois is coming off a bad game vs. ULL and a bye week and this marks their conference opener as well and travel to Michigan the following week. Both teams should be well prepared for this game and focused on task at hand. Slight spot edge to penn state as it is revenge and a night game. Again if it is raining it greatly diminished what penn st likes to do offensively and will mitigate crowd involvement so keep eye on weather for this one.

I had the luxury of sitting in a suite two weeks ago w/ a radio broadcasting company and was able to have a few beers and vent. It was early 1Q, we could have put the game away easy. Juice rolls out in the pocket, has an easy 20 yards he can run for, and he throws the ball away. It happened 4 times in the 1Q. Everyone in that suite said the same damn thing, run the fucking ball juice. And he didn't. And that was the emphasis on the day. Talking w/ a few guys in the suite who had spoke to Zook during the course of the week before the ULL game, they had put in between 30 to 40 new plays that week. Those 30-40 new plays were solely for the ULL game and that was it. The emphasis on Juice not running the ball was also stressed to minimize his hits. The guys who had interviewed Zook also stated that Zook had mentioned Penn State in interviews even the week of Eastern, which would have been 2 weeks ago. He stated time and time again that the game against Eastern was to re-group from the loss at MIzzou and the game against ULL was to input a few new plays they would rarely use, to minimize the damage as far as getting hit by the opponent, and to input a few new players who had not played due to "figuring stuff out (Brent -OL - best lineman).

Hence, you get an Illinois victory 20-17. You get Juice throwing the ball into the stands (he'd rather throw an INT than throw the ball away), you get no pass greater than 15 yards, and you get very few option plays w/ the chance of Juice getting hit as he rolls to the outside. With the game 20-17 late in the fourth, Zook opened it up. Juice ran for two first downs and game over.
 
--Concerns for Illinois --I am willing to give Illinois a pass for the ragin cajun game but as I looked over the first few weeks of the year I am struck by just how awful the Illinois pass defense has been. Against the two fbs schools they played the QB’s went a combined 51 of 70 in the passing game. Granted it was daniel and desormeaux but when they are facing an offense that gets 265 thru the air a game so far it is a concern that illini backers have to take into consideration. Another concern that I have is that penn state has already recorded 14 sacks this year and Illinois had a really hard time blocking ULL blitz packages two weeks ago. Juice is going to make some plays that save a team from having more sacks allowed and sometimes will take a sack where a less mobile qb would just throw it away but protecting juice is a big concern as he doesn’t make the best of decisions with the ball when unrushed. I also am unclear on what Illinois’ identity is as an offensive football team right now. They only mustered 81 yards and 2.3 a carry against a Missouri rush defense that can be taken advantage of. They have to be VERY balanced in this game to compete and have to have some success running on the lions. It wasn’t for lack of trying either as they rushed it 35 times in that game. Next concern for me is discipline and penalties. In the two games vs. fbs schools Illinois had 17 penalties for 176 yards. That is just brutal and now they are going to play their first game in an extremely hostile environment all year. I was on record in the offseason as saying that this Illinois team despite the great zook recruiting classes was going to be a bit down compared to last year. I felt that it went beyond the loss of Mendenhall that everyone points to and that they would miss lehman and and some of those key olinemen. I haven’t seen much from them to dissuade me from that. I have not seen a ton of Illinois football this year so a lot of what I am looking at is based on box scores and articles. I am not sure at this point how correctable some of these penalties , turnovers and coverage issues are. Throw in the wide disparity with penn st level of play at home compared to on the road .

I will agree that the biggest weakness for Illinois is a huge weakness. Our pass defense has been fucking pathetic, and I am being easy. Vontae Davis was supposed to be one of the top corners in the league, and I haven't been impressed. He is a fantastic tackler, but that doesn't get you anywhere. It's the 5-7 yard pass that flat out kills us. I'm not worried about the big play, but those short passes, slants, outs, fucking kill us. I figured it'd be a rough day w/ ULL running the option and throwing out of it. Seriously, it was like NCAA Football on PS3, where you choose an option pass, and they constantly did it, and me personally, would be tough as a corner to defend, but it killed em. Going into this year, I thought this would be our strength, but as Mizzou showed, its definately not.
 
No play for me and I think I have made a case for either side in this game. Very interested in your thoughts on this game nrrop as I know how closely you follow the big ten and ILL in particular.

I don't get the line. I really don't. They covered this # w/ Zook's recruits since he's been there. Penn State hasn't played anyone yet, and Illinois' had three weeks to prepare, including a bye week. You got a kid starting his first B10 game at QB against Zook who'll blitz to offset the horrendous play of his corners. The line makes sense when you look at a prospective of what Penn State has accomplished this year but against Coastal Carolina, Temple w/o DiMichele who went out early I think, Syracuse and Oregon State travelling the country. PSU wasn't this big a favorite at anytime in the Big 10 last year, and would have to go back 3 years to see a -18.5 vs. Michigan State, which they won by 3, a -17.5 vs. Illinois which they won by 14, and a -20 against a pitiful NW squad who they beat by 26.

And it doesn't help that my offseason work put Illinois at #2 and Penn State at #5 in the Big 10.

I'm on it. Just not sure how much. The weather does help me though.

GL
 
great thoughts on PSU..I believe in this PSU team though...very under the radar..Illinois misses Mendenhall and Lehman big time. I think PSU rolls here, but kinda hesitant to pull the trigger just yet.

I agree w/ HUNTDOG..IMHO they are the best team in the Big 10. 3 EASY covers so far in '08. I still don't think Vegas has caught up with them.

BOL
 
Ok quick thoughts on kent state at ball state
THE LINE -- +18 --Want to start by saying this game falls into the “what have you done for me lately” ? category. Ball state goes out and beats BIG TEN school Indiana in Bloomington and kent state goes down to Louisiana and gets pummeled by the ragin Cajuns. The result is a line that is significantly different than what we would have seen one week ago , two weeks ago and three weeks ago. Follow my logic here …Lets say you were to give ball state a 4 point home field edge ( I give them less than that but since I am discussing it from a pro-play-on-kent angle lets call it 4 ) … that makes ball state a 14 point favorite on a neutral field. This is bizarre. Show me anyone who has ball state power rated 14 points higher than kent state in the offseason and I will show you someone who doesn’t know how to do them. So what we are looking at is a huge adjustment to those ratrings based on the first few weeks of final scores. Adjustments have to be made and sometimes being slow to adjust can be costly … but not nearly as costly as over adjusting for recent performance. I made a point of saying this several weeks ago regarding week1 results and the same applies for this game, here ….

http://www.cappingthegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63444&highlight=note


And that is what I am talking about in regards to this line. It is way over adjusted . I remember that I had kent state rated slightly higher than some other guys who do power ratings in the preseason as I had kent around a 3 point dog to ball st where as some others were more around 4 as I recall. This line is saying more than 14 on a neutral. That’s right more than 14 because the preseason neutral field power rating accounted for dante love being on the football field and he wont be. He might be worth 2 or 3 points !!! I will get into this injury in more detail because there is potential here for what I refer to as a “double injury”. There is NO line value in ball st. NONE. They are the sexy team right now and kent is the team that just jkeeps burning money.

Last year --ball st plays in the west division of the mac and kent st in the east. They did not play last year.

The spot -- Huge edge for kent state here in my opinion. Kent is coming off a pounding at the hands of ULL and ball st is coming off one fo the biggest victories in recent school history. The spinal injury to Dante Love has to be on the minds of his teammates and friends. The combination of the two has to make it tough to focus on a team like kent after that team was dismantled by a sunbelt foe. But I have reason to believe that the day after the iowa state loss that kent has targeted this game. Here are a few qoutes from coach martin that make me think this…..

“We are treating this like our season begins this week. Conference games are obviously the most important thing for us and this is what we have been pointing to all year long.”

Those were his FIRST words when he talked to the media this week. Here is some more….

“Non-conference does not matter as much, you have to go out and win your conference games.”

“The conference is the most important thing. For us, you have to win in the conference to be successful. We’re going to play eight conference games and those are our bowl tie-ins. All those conference games dictate what is going to happen to your season. You can go 4-0 in your non-conference, but if you lose in your conference games, that is a losing season and a bad year.”


Those above statements were made after the ULL game but what I find more telling is what was said before that loss…..he made this one when asked about Jarvis minor ankle injury the week of the ull game…..In other words this was the mindset prior to the loss and not just coach-speak trying to keep the kids heads into it. Here it is …

“He [Jarvis] turned his ankle a little bit early in the game. He kept playing, but then it looked like he was getting a little bit sore. I felt like we could rest him and get away with it. We wanted to play Andre [Flowers] and [Jacquise] Terry really badly, and we got to do that. I think he could have played had we needed him. We’ll see how he is. Jameson just hasn’t healed yet with the ankle injury. He’s still out with that, and he’s not been full speed. I’ve never been any place where there’s that many ankle injuries or it takes that long to heal up from one.”

So what I am concluding is that the game at ull was not a point of emphasis for the team. Neither Jarvis or jameson played and had the game been a conference game I think both would have seen action. Now both of those guys are on offense and don’t tackle anyone but I think it shows the mindset of the team going into that game after playing two tough bcs opponents decently prior to that. The team is focusing on conference goals.

So you have ballst after their big game and with a player in the hospital who will never play again and you have a kent team ready to pounce. Big edge I think.


What I see and why I bet kent state --Might as well start out with the injury. Dante Love was a key component to the offense. He had 3 catches for 27 yards prior to the injury in Indiana last week. Agaisnt akron 7 catches 97 yards , 5 carries for 5 yards a long rush of 11 , and 4 kickoff returns for 96 yards. Against navy he had 9 catches for 165 yards and 2 td ( take a moment to reflect on how bad mike teel is ….. Ok lets continue now ). He also rushed the ball 6 times for 37 yards in that game and returned 5 kicks for 135 yards. Against northeastern he had 171 yards receiving , 22 yards rushing and one td receiving and rushing in the game. He is out. How on earth do you replace him ?? There is simply no way and it brings to mind something that someone taught me a long time ago about football injuries … be mindful of “double injuries”. This concept was first brought to my attention in regards to offensive line injuries. A stud LT gets injured and you realizie that there will be a downgrade at that position for the next game .. But often times it turns out to be a double downgrade depending on how they address the issue. Often times they will move a starting guard over to tackle because they trust him over the nonstarter or because they have greater depth at guard. The end result is often that the team is now not just weaker at the tackle position but at the guard position as well. I think this could apply here. I am not completely sure who it will be that they will use to try and fill the void here with the Love injury but it could fall into the “double injury “ category depending on how they handle it.

Kent st rested Jarvis and his gimpy ankle with this game in mind. Ball st is giving up nearly 5 yards a carry and is actually giving up 5.34 yards per carry vs. FBS opponents. In the two games in which they have faced option style offenses with running qb’s , they have given up 346 yards on the ground and 256 yards on the ground. Edelman and Jarvis should have a field day running on this defense. Kent st is running for 202 yards per game and 4.95 yards per carry and that is more significant than you might think as they played some physical teams in boston college and iowa state to start the year. I cannot fathom that there would be any instances where this game was played and kent st did not rack up a ton of yards on the ground. Passing the ball could be a different issue but kent does not throw it much anyway. They only attempt around 24 passes a game but they do it atleast enough to keep a defense honest .. Not like the navy’s , air forces and Gtechs of the world. Ball state pass defense has not been that bad but you will also find that to be the case a lot of the times with teams that do not defend the rush well. So I definitely see kent st having success moving the ball and scoring on ball state.

Unfortunately , kent st looks very vulnerable to what ball st brings in offensively. Ball st is a big play offense and kent showed last week that they can be beaten that way. Want to say again though that I think kent was just very flat for that game after two bcs opponents and conference opener against one of the best teams in the conference on deck and having to travel down to Louisiana. Ball state is completing an incredible 72 percent of their passes for 290 yards a game. Obviously they lose a ton of that production with loss of love but nate davis is going to hit open receivers and they have enough other skill guys to get the job done against the flashes who are giving up 2 completions for every 3 attempts and over 200 yards a game. Miquale lewis is a small 185 pound back who fits perfectly into what Coach hoke likes to do at ball state and he has given them great balance to start the year and went nuts on the Indiana defense ( javon ringer is going to have a field day ) last week. Make no mistake , this is a good ball state offense. Kent was victimized by some big plays last week but weren’t bad against iowa st and BC … I think they just struggled with Desormeaux , who also torched the fightin illini the week prior.

So really I envision a game where they exchange a lot of scores. I would look at the over but I am priced out with it set at 60 and the style of clock chewing drives that kent should employ here.

A note on special teams is that love was in charge of kick off return duties as well.

Ballstate 34 kent st 27
 
Follow my logic here …Lets say you were to give ball state a 4 point home field edge ( I give them less than that but since I am discussing it from a pro-play-on-kent angle lets call it 4 ) … that makes ball state a 14 point favorite on a neutral field. This is bizarre. Show me anyone who has ball state power rated 14 points higher than kent state in the offseason and I will show you someone who doesn’t know how to do them.

And I totally agree with everything.

Kent +18 for me, please.
 
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when you got time id like to discuss the nevada game with you


I'll start.

The first thing that stands out to me is spot and trend. So since that is much easier to get into than matchups , that is what we should discuss first ...hehe. i will throw in a little line value discussion too.

I like the spot here for nevada. Nevada played a very hard fought game against texas tech the first week of the season and then went to missouri to face the tigers and gave up big gainer after big gainer. I was talking to sirwinzalot about this and he correctly pointed out that the spot might have been tough for nevada as they had put a ton into that TT game and with lippincott injury and travel that they would likely struggle. At the time of that game , i didn't see it that way but after talking about it the other day , i think sirwinzalot was right. Nevada then gets the bye week. 1-2 overall and 0-2 vs fbs and heading into rivalry game. Looking over nevada schedule , if they want to sniff bowl eligibility they need this win badly. at hawaii , at fresno and at latech are all tough conference games and boise state at home is going to be a tough matchup for them. They should be about as focused as we could want. Meanwhile , unlv is playing some pretty damn good football , and i wont lie ...i was a naysayer to all the love this team was getting in the offseason ... i said "prove it" and so far they have. But they are now coming off of wins vs two bcs schools at arizona st ( amazing ) and home to iowa state. The team has to be emotionally spent somewhat after that as both games went to overtime. I am not saying that the team wont be ready for nevada but the need for victory here is huge for one school and much less so for the other. the closest we have come to this situation ( two huge back to back wins ) was back in 2003 when we beat wiscy at wisconsin and hawaii at home. We followed that up with a road game at nevada ... and won 16-12 as 5.5 point favorites.

From a line value standpoint we have value as well in my eyes. Here is the link to the game of the year lines posted at golden nugget this offseason. nevada was -6 a month ago ....
http://www.cappingthegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60162&highlight=golden+nugget

that was when lippincott was still running the football though.

Will wait for some of your thoughts before getting into the matchup edges i see here beyond the spot and line value.
 
I'll start.

The first thing that stands out to me is spot and trend. So since that is much easier to get into than matchups , that is what we should discuss first ...hehe. i will throw in a little line value discussion too.

I like the spot here for nevada. Nevada played a very hard fought game against texas tech the first week of the season and then went to missouri to face the tigers and gave up big gainer after big gainer. I was talking to sirwinzalot about this and he correctly pointed out that the spot might have been tough for nevada as they had put a ton into that TT game and with lippincott injury and travel that they would likely struggle. At the time of that game , i didn't see it that way but after talking about it the other day , i think sirwinzalot was right. Nevada then gets the bye week. 1-2 overall and 0-2 vs fbs and heading into rivalry game. Looking over nevada schedule , if they want to sniff bowl eligibility they need this win badly. at hawaii , at fresno and at latech are all tough conference games and boise state at home is going to be a tough matchup for them. They should be about as focused as we could want. Meanwhile , unlv is playing some pretty damn good football , and i wont lie ...i was a naysayer to all the love this team was getting in the offseason ... i said "prove it" and so far they have. But they are now coming off of wins vs two bcs schools at arizona st ( amazing ) and home to iowa state. The team has to be emotionally spent somewhat after that as both games went to overtime. I am not saying that the team wont be ready for nevada but the need for victory here is huge for one school and much less so for the other. the closest we have come to this situation ( two huge back to back wins ) was back in 2003 when we beat wiscy at wisconsin and hawaii at home. We followed that up with a road game at nevada ... and won 16-12 as 5.5 point favorites.

From a line value standpoint we have value as well in my eyes. Here is the link to the game of the year lines posted at golden nugget this offseason. nevada was -6 a month ago ....
http://www.cappingthegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60162&highlight=golden+nugget

that was when lippincott was still running the football though.

Will wait for some of your thoughts before getting into the matchup edges i see here beyond the spot and line value.


You've just written basically what I've just written in my thread. The spot for UNR is great here, off a bye against your rival who just played B2B OT games against BCS schools and WON. Factor in Nevada winning the last 3 and covering in all 3 games as well. I am sure last yrs win stings a bit for UNLV since they lost on a TD pass with 27 seconds remaining, but, emotionally they have to be somewhat spent here? Also read an article basically saying for Nevada if they lose this game, the season is basically over so they really have their backs against the wall here and they are getting over a field goal in this game.

Thank you for pointing out the GN lines from the summer, very interesting.

I am a bit worried about who is going to pick up the slack running the ball for Nevada, I prefer my QB not be my leading rusher so someone def has to step up for Lippincott being out because Nevada can spot a nice balanced offense if they have someone to run the ball.

Clayton has played well for UNLV but I don't get the picture that he is the type of QB to totally take advantage of the Nevada secondary, I could see him going for around 200 in which case they better run the ball pretty well and Nevada has done decent against the run this year.
 
You've just written basically what I've just written in my thread. The spot for UNR is great here, off a bye against your rival who just played B2B OT games against BCS schools and WON. Factor in Nevada winning the last 3 and covering in all 3 games as well. I am sure last yrs win stings a bit for UNLV since they lost on a TD pass with 27 seconds remaining, but, emotionally they have to be somewhat spent here? Also read an article basically saying for Nevada if they lose this game, the season is basically over so they really have their backs against the wall here and they are getting over a field goal in this game.

Thank you for pointing out the GN lines from the summer, very interesting.

I am a bit worried about who is going to pick up the slack running the ball for Nevada, I prefer my QB not be my leading rusher so someone def has to step up for Lippincott being out because Nevada can spot a nice balanced offense if they have someone to run the ball.

Clayton has played well for UNLV but I don't get the picture that he is the type of QB to totally take advantage of the Nevada secondary, I could see him going for around 200 in which case they better run the ball pretty well and Nevada has done decent against the run this year.


Here is the thing as i see it .... if you look at where unlv has succeeded defensively so far it is more against the power sets that ASU and iowa st used. The spread set that utah used torched us.

have more detail on this ... but supper is ready. be back in half hour or less.
 
ok. So as most folks know the defensive weakness for unlv is the secondary. The entire offseason the raves out of spring and fall practices was the DL. And we have done a good job with them at stopping the run for the most part , considering the level of competition. Our secondary lacks depth and experience and speed and technique .. ya its pretty bad. Against the power sets we are comfortable with the DL and can use our unique blitz packages effectively because the secondary and linebackers have easier assignments to account for and we have more men closer to the line of scrimmage ..... in other words , the unique blitz is easier to disguise. But this wasn't the case against utah because they spread us out a little more ... the blitz was easier to read and when we did succeed at pass rushing, johnson is mobile enough to do what it takes. You could see similar week 1 vs utah state. When Setzer was QB we had an easier time of it because we really didnt have to account for his feet ... but when the aggies went to Borel we struggled a bit. With rudy carpenter and arnaud QB running wasnt much of a concern and we didnt have to play the game so "straight up". The word after the ASU game was that Erickson was focusing on the power run game because he thought it was what they needed to do well the following week vs georgia to stay competitive there. He got cute and got away from what ASU does best and what unlv struggles against most.

Here we have to account for the wolfpack qb. He is mobile , similar to brian johnson even if to a lesser extent and like the utah game we will be spread more horizontally and unable to effectively blitz. I mean we run some pretty sleezy defenses at times ... blitzing a corner and rolling a safety while dropping a DL into coverage for instance !!! That kind of stuff works much better obviously vs the more "pro set" type of offenses.
 
Hey VK, I am considering some ML dog plays this week, so drop in my thread when you get a chance and give me your opinion on my short list as I am having a tough time deciding which ones I actually wanna take a chance on, thanks!
 
vk, took nevada ml +155, figured since ur thread about the 4.5 points and the winner of the game, might as well skip out on the juice for a team i think wins the game
 
good stuff on nevada guys...

etg; i have had some disagreements on this, so take it for what it's worth but i think nevada loses very very little with the lippincott loss...if anything, just the leadership. i really like what taua and fragger bring to the table as a 1 2 punch, and i don't think there is any dropoff in talent

vk; absolutely agree with you on the style of offenses...

hope we cash fellas
 
kyle, just now reading that kent state shit...excellent stuff. maybe i'll get lucky and hit the +800...they sure owe me money.
 
I am starting to churn out some numbers for those games as I speak.

But thanks for the heads up. It will be interesting to see how the forecast changes as the week progresses, but catching a bunch of points with a running team will be valuable.

And I really think that hte new forum will be very beneficial.

Nite nite.

Hello Kyle or Hoops

What's with this 'new forum'
First I've heard of it.

I repeat again how much I enjoy your opening posts in these threads.
I didn't know about that Stanford/SJSU game, I just saw that I had aloser.
Well, I've joined you on both of those tough beats, Miami-Fla being the other.
Having said all that, I hope you have ahuge week because I think a lot of your slate is going to find its way onto my slate as well.
GL
 
kyle, just now reading that kent state shit...excellent stuff. maybe i'll get lucky and hit the +800...they sure owe me money.


considering a tiny bet on that ml as well. Certainly don't expect a kent st straight up win but at +850 that i saw last night at bookmker/cris , it has to be worth a small bet.

the list of teams owing me money is pretty large...
 
Hello Kyle or Hoops

What's with this 'new forum'
First I've heard of it.

I repeat again how much I enjoy your opening posts in these threads.
I didn't know about that Stanford/SJSU game, I just saw that I had aloser.
Well, I've joined you on both of those tough beats, Miami-Fla being the other.
Having said all that, I hope you have a huge week because I think a lot of your slate is going to find its way onto my slate as well.
GL


hope you win bull. long term the bad breaks should even out. just two of the stranger ones that i have had over the years.

here is a link to thread on the possibility of a new forum.....

http://www.cappingthegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64909
 
Added some plays today. I look into my crystal ball and I see rain .... and it isn't falling straight down because i see wind too .......

bet # 107 navy/wakeforest under 53
bet # 119 virginia/duke under 44
bet # 167 south florida/ncstate under 44
bet # 161 uab/scarolina under 48

chance i play back at these after they plummet. :) hard work will pay off someday.
 
Saw some stuff about Troy Okie State makes me back off a tad

---I believe the Stat was that when two teams meet prior season and both return at least 13 starters, the prior years winner covers 80% of the time.

---Ohio State opened at around 18 vs. Troy, now Oklahoma State opens around 16.

----Oklahoma State beat Houston 56-37, a 19 point differential. Alot of Cowboy fans feel this might be like the Houston game. Even with a dominating Cowboy win, the spread here is very high for solid Troy club, and a 4th quarter backdoor at the number is very possible. So far Okie State played Houston and Washington State, two teams really not a solid test to show where Okie is and any defensive improvement ? as Houston did move it.



---I like the new forum section and added an idea of additional section just for threads on each individual game so there can be more focused concentration. Sometimes kind of hard to peg games down with thoughts are all over the place on a number of games in a number of different threads.
 
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