Wednesday Discussion Thread

VirginiaCavs

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ranger suarez k prop interesting at 4.5. his k per 9 on the season nothing to be thrilled about but in his last 16 innings he 18 k's and now he facing a atl team who does hit lefties well but they also have a ton of swing and miss fanning 31.5% the time vs lhp! it really just a matter of do we think he good enough to go 5-6 innings tonight? he has been really good vs the braves but mostly out of the pen, he only has 1 start vs them and that was way back in '18. tough to translate effectiveness against a team out the pen to starting.
 
urias out prop another one im a bit torn on. 15.5 seems pretty low for a guy as capable as him vs a nats lineup who 25th in the league in ops against lhp. generally this be a automatic to play him to go past 5.1 innings, he has done so 3 of 4 this month with the only exception being 5 innings in his last start facing phils in b2b starts, the thing is he didnt allow a run in those 5 innings and wasnt facing any high leverage situations yet Robets felt compelled to yank him after 80 pitches despite only allowing 2 hits and no walks with 5k's, and there in lies the problem, for whatever reason he seems to be on a much lower pitch count than the average starter. despite going 6 innings in 3 his 4 starts this month he has done so because he been incredibly efficient, he hasnt thrown more than 82 pitches in any of those starts. He certainly capable of doing that here, it just worrisome to know if he has a 20 pitch inning the odds are dodgers wont send him out for the 6th! If they didnt baby him so much this be a really easy bet!!
 
anyone want to try and explain what going on with Robbie Ray this year? he always been a primarily fastball/slider pitcher but prior to last season he had maintained throwing those 2 no more than 85% ish. last year his fastball/slider usage spiked to above 90% his pitches and he was obviously very effective, now this season he has abandoned throwing anything else as he throwing fastball/slider 98% of the time! im of the belief a starter really needs a 3rd pitch even if it just to give hitters something else to think about! this day and age with the amount of guessing/sitting on pitches going on you really putting yourself in a tough spot with a 2 pitch mix, that fine out the pen when you only facing guys 1x but when you starting and expected to get thru a lineup 2-3 times you really need that 3rd pitch! it could be last years success onluy throwing the 2 pitches was somewhat thanks to the fact guys still had to think about a 3rd offering and now they have enough info to know that isnt the case. It certainly not helping that his velo has ticked down more than 1mph as well.. so he more predictable and the heater has lost a bit of pep, that said the value given to his heater by fangraphs is basically the same as last season. His swinging strike rate has held firm at a elite 15.4% but his called strikes is the lowest in his career so guys not taking pitches in the zon (probably cause they know what coming!). The thing that has me still viewing him as a legit ace is the fact all these games he looks fantastic in all but 1 stinking inning, he has given up majority his runs in that one crooked number disaster inning! Lets look at this month alone, last time out against a hot boston lineup he went 6 innings giving up 4 runs which all came in the 3rd, start before that was 6 innings 5 runs allowed of which 4 came in the 4th inning, he went 6.2 innings vs tampa allowing 4 runs and you guessed it all 4 runs came in the 4th!! Miami was the only game i recall where all the damage came at the end of the start, all the others after he gives up the big inning he settles back down and pitches another few clean innings!! If these crooked number innings were coming in the 1st or at the end of his starts it would make far more sense but for most part that hasnt been the case!! It been the second time around when he between 51-75 pitches where the damage being done with opponents ops over .800 in this part the game, however when he breaks thru to his 76th pitch on and 3rd time thru lineup opponents ops drops to below .500!!! This isnt something that has aligned with the rest his career, i have no answer for it, maybe the fact he no longer has the threat the 3rd pitch? but wouldnt that lend itself to his struggles continuing from that point on instead of him regaining his form and looking elite again the 3rd time around? makes no sense to me..

He pitched 2 games vs oakland last season, a lineup i think we can agree was much better than what they have now, and he struck out 19 batters in 12.2 innings only allowing 3 runs total. He has been pretty damn good at Safeco (or whatever it called these days) holding opponents to a .579 ops pitching here as a Mariner. 7 of his 9 starts he has went 6 innings or more, his out prop is 17.5 (6 innings to cash) but heavy heavy juice but there still might be value at -195 considering it feels like at least 75% chance he pitches 6 innings!! i was really looking at his k prop at 7.5 and i lean to that but think im gonna make that a .5x straight bet then use the over 17.5 outs as part a round robin parlay!
 
castillo ov 5.5 k's is =160 so was thinking his over k's would pair well with ray outs but we have a weather issue in cincy tonight. they calling for 80% chance of rain at time of 1st pitch then 50% every hour throughout the night, doesnt look very promising for them to play it and even worse what if they do get it started then there a delay mid game and castillo gets pulled as starting pitcher often does in those cases. that leaves me looking for other plays to pair with ray out total.
 
Freaking chance for rain all over the place today, no way do I want pitcher props w chance of delays. I don’t really like messing w those games at all so I passed on everything except a Ray ov 17.5 outs, Urias ov 15.5 outs parlay.
 
I think we should start keeping a eye on playing pitchers under k prop when they lined at 3.5, almost always lot of juice to the over that number (obviously plus money on under) and sure seems to me like they rarely get to 4k’s. I know I’ve had a terrible time trying to hit 3.5 k prop! Watching Ashby now, his number was 3.5 and plus to the under so curious to see if he gets to 4? I wanted to play it but I’ve yet to play a under k prop, lol.
 
How bout that. Soon as Ray gets over the 50 pitch mark and in 4th inning he gives up a bomb, let’s see if he can limit it to just the 1 run tho, that be a huge improvement over the big crooked numbers he been giving up around this spot in the game.
 
Urias thru 4 on 43 pitches and only 1 over the minimum faced. Can’t imagine he doesn’t go well past 5.1 innings unless he gets blown up in 5th. Long as things go well in 5th he can hit 16 outs before lineup even flips for 3rd AB’s!
 
Ray was all about the sweat there, go 5.2 then give up the jack and the walk. Just saw mound visit and I figured they might yank him. Good thing he got the k to finish off the 6th.
 
Ray was all about the sweat there, go 5.2 then give up the jack and the walk. Just saw mound visit and I figured they might yank him. Good thing he got the k to finish off the 6th.

Him and Urias both started freaking me out, Assholes were cruising right up till the last out we needed!! I thought for sure Urias was gonna get yanked
 
Im shocked they giving Urias a chance to finish the inning, think this the most pitches he thrown all year.
 
Him and Urias both started freaking me out, Assholes were cruising right up till the last out we needed!! I thought for sure Urias was gonna get yanked
Didn't do Urias, did LAL -1.5 in some stuff with Ray, SD and SF over. Dodgers didn't bring the sticks today of course. Still got time and just got the putout at home to keep it to one
 
Can I just point out how unbelievably good the rays are have been at scoring runs in the first inning lately. Just an observation… and maybe it’ll fade soon but at the moment it definitely seems like something to watch
 
Castillo barely made it. Got a called S3 to end the 5th. I do like Greene tomorrow even if it is high variance. And it is w him.

Yea, I’m glad I stayed off at -160 but glad you cashed. Guess gotta see where they put greene? His results overall super high variance but his k’s really havnt been, I remember cashing his k prop in milw despite him getting shelled for 7 runs in 2.2 innings, still fanned 7 of the 8 outs he got! His stuff undeniable, I dunno if he understands how to pitch and his control all over but I’d hate to stand in vs a kid like that throwing that hard!!
 
Yea, I’m glad I stayed off at -160 but glad you cashed. Guess gotta see where they put greene? His results overall super high variance but his k’s really havnt been, I remember cashing his k prop in milw despite him getting shelled for 7 runs in 2.2 innings, still fanned 7 of the 8 outs he got! His stuff undeniable, I dunno if he understands how to pitch and his control all over but I’d hate to stand in vs a kid like that throwing that hard!!
Can only think of Ricky Vaughn and Unit v Kruk in the AS game
 
Yea, I’m glad I stayed off at -160 but glad you cashed. Guess gotta see where they put greene? His results overall super high variance but his k’s really havnt been, I remember cashing his k prop in milw despite him getting shelled for 7 runs in 2.2 innings, still fanned 7 of the 8 outs he got! His stuff undeniable, I dunno if he understands how to pitch and his control all over but I’d hate to stand in vs a kid like that throwing that hard!!
It was 5.5 vs Pirates when he took the no no into the 8th. Not sure about last start vs Jays. Look at who he’s faced: ATL, LAD, Stl, @Col, Milw, Milw, Pitt and Toronto. That’s bunch of decent hitting teams and Pitt. Career high 9K vs Pitt.
 
It was 5.5 vs Pirates when he took the no no into the 8th. Not sure about last start vs Jays. Look at who he’s faced: ATL, LAD, Stl, @Col, Milw, Milw, Pitt and Toronto. That’s bunch of decent hitting teams and Pitt. Career high 9K vs Pitt.

He has gotten 6+ k’s in 7 of his 8 starts. Gotta think his number be 5.5 at the lowest. Considering all the swing and miss on scrubbies I could see it being 6.5. If I remember correctly Mahle was 5.5 vs cubbies, Castillo today was 5.5, I wouldn’t think they open him higher but have to get on early cause it will no doubt get bet up to high juice if not up another k. Of course these pricks don’t have a number posted for him on this 1st set that came out, I suppose that good for me since I can’t bet him till 9am anyways!

Really think it just a matter of him being good enough to last 4-5 innings. He should punch out 7+ assuming he gets at least 12 outs! Think my hit rate facing cubs easily highest of any team, the only one I remember losing was Gallen when he faced them b2b starts, didn’t feel great bout that one but couldn’t resist 5.5 with him (damn near cashed as he ended up with 5) Lol. Scrubbies have so much swing and miss in bottom half the lineup if the starting pitcher can get 2-3 cracks at 4 thru 9 it inevitable he gonna rack up the k’s. It almost benefits our cause for him to be erratic and allow baserunners as long he keeps the damage to a minimum so he stays in the game, basically not wasting outs on guys who make contact! 41.5% his outs have come via the punch out!! Cubs have even fanned a bunch vs pitchers who don’t generally strike guys out, this could very well be his 1st double digit strike out game!
 
He has gotten 6+ k’s in 7 of his 8 starts. Gotta think his number be 5.5 at the lowest. Considering all the swing and miss on scrubbies I could see it being 6.5. If I remember correctly Mahle was 5.5 vs cubbies, Castillo today was 5.5, I wouldn’t think they open him higher but have to get on early cause it will no doubt get bet up to high juice if not up another k. Of course these pricks don’t have a number posted for him on this 1st set that came out, I suppose that good for me since I can’t bet him till 9am anyways!

Really think it just a matter of him being good enough to last 4-5 innings. He should punch out 7+ assuming he gets at least 12 outs! Think my hit rate facing cubs easily highest of any team, the only one I remember losing was Gallen when he faced them b2b starts, didn’t feel great bout that one but couldn’t resist 5.5 with him (damn near cashed as he ended up with 5) Lol. Scrubbies have so much swing and miss in bottom half the lineup if the starting pitcher can get 2-3 cracks at 4 thru 9 it inevitable he gonna rack up the k’s. It almost benefits our cause for him to be erratic and allow baserunners as long he keeps the damage to a minimum so he stays in the game, basically not wasting outs on guys who make contact! 41.5% his outs have come via the punch out!! Cubs have even fanned a bunch vs pitchers who don’t generally strike guys out, this could very well be his 1st double digit strike out game!
For me someone like that that finally learns how to pitch is great but often at the expense of just the blow away stuff to a degree, be interesting to watch.
 
For me someone like that that finally learns how to pitch is great but often at the expense of just the blow away stuff to a degree, be interesting to watch.

Yea, hard to say. Who knows if he ever learn to pitch? It be scary if he does!! he needs to find a 3rd pitch he confident in. Guess right now he be better off learning to control the fastball/slider! Lol. worry bout developing that change or finding a different 3rd pitch in offseason. Not as if he gonna be facing lineups a 3rd time around real often, if Ray can do it with 2 pitches this kid prob can.
 
Weather issues in Cincy. 80% chance of rain at first pitch and then tapering down to 50% on accuweather. Fuck.

That what my phone told me yesterday tho. I saw it was gonna be same damn forecast in this one so I been debating all night. I’m just waiting for the play where pitcher pitches 2 innings and 1 k away then the rain comes and he never returns: lol.
 
They called for rain all day here in stl yesterday and we eventually got a few hours of it but was way off on the time. Then yesterday they said all day rain today and now it pushed back to later this afternoon and only few hours. I think this system basically the same they dealing w there and seems very hit and miss where the rain hits and for how long.
 
anyone want to try and explain what going on with Robbie Ray this year? he always been a primarily fastball/slider pitcher but prior to last season he had maintained throwing those 2 no more than 85% ish. last year his fastball/slider usage spiked to above 90% his pitches and he was obviously very effective, now this season he has abandoned throwing anything else as he throwing fastball/slider 98% of the time! im of the belief a starter really needs a 3rd pitch even if it just to give hitters something else to think about! this day and age with the amount of guessing/sitting on pitches going on you really putting yourself in a tough spot with a 2 pitch mix, that fine out the pen when you only facing guys 1x but when you starting and expected to get thru a lineup 2-3 times you really need that 3rd pitch! it could be last years success onluy throwing the 2 pitches was somewhat thanks to the fact guys still had to think about a 3rd offering and now they have enough info to know that isnt the case. It certainly not helping that his velo has ticked down more than 1mph as well.. so he more predictable and the heater has lost a bit of pep, that said the value given to his heater by fangraphs is basically the same as last season. His swinging strike rate has held firm at a elite 15.4% but his called strikes is the lowest in his career so guys not taking pitches in the zon (probably cause they know what coming!). The thing that has me still viewing him as a legit ace is the fact all these games he looks fantastic in all but 1 stinking inning, he has given up majority his runs in that one crooked number disaster inning! Lets look at this month alone, last time out against a hot boston lineup he went 6 innings giving up 4 runs which all came in the 3rd, start before that was 6 innings 5 runs allowed of which 4 came in the 4th inning, he went 6.2 innings vs tampa allowing 4 runs and you guessed it all 4 runs came in the 4th!! Miami was the only game i recall where all the damage came at the end of the start, all the others after he gives up the big inning he settles back down and pitches another few clean innings!! If these crooked number innings were coming in the 1st or at the end of his starts it would make far more sense but for most part that hasnt been the case!! It been the second time around when he between 51-75 pitches where the damage being done with opponents ops over .800 in this part the game, however when he breaks thru to his 76th pitch on and 3rd time thru lineup opponents ops drops to below .500!!! This isnt something that has aligned with the rest his career, i have no answer for it, maybe the fact he no longer has the threat the 3rd pitch? but wouldnt that lend itself to his struggles continuing from that point on instead of him regaining his form and looking elite again the 3rd time around? makes no sense to me..

He pitched 2 games vs oakland last season, a lineup i think we can agree was much better than what they have now, and he struck out 19 batters in 12.2 innings only allowing 3 runs total. He has been pretty damn good at Safeco (or whatever it called these days) holding opponents to a .579 ops pitching here as a Mariner. 7 of his 9 starts he has went 6 innings or more, his out prop is 17.5 (6 innings to cash) but heavy heavy juice but there still might be value at -195 considering it feels like at least 75% chance he pitches 6 innings!! i was really looking at his k prop at 7.5 and i lean to that but think im gonna make that a .5x straight bet then use the over 17.5 outs as part a round robin parlay!
His velo is down. Pretty much sums it up in the least amount of words
 
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