Unionizing
- Thread starter Marlo
- Start date
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
Way too early to tell what direction this thing goes. Bigger question for me is would they then become ineligible under NCAA rules to patricipate in an NCAA sanctioned event? I don't know why they wouldn't have to pay taxes though.
I heard an economist yesterday say the average D1 football player is worth around $435,000 to his school, basketball players were closer to around $525,000 I believe. But NCAA football and hoops has been "ruined" in my eyes for years because they basically have become too commercialized and basically act as minor league systems.
I heard an economist yesterday say the average D1 football player is worth around $435,000 to his school, basketball players were closer to around $525,000 I believe. But NCAA football and hoops has been "ruined" in my eyes for years because they basically have become too commercialized and basically act as minor league systems.
ArizonaKid
Pretty much a regular
I would hope they would have to pay taxes as "employees" on their "earnings" which is going to be significant, especially at a private institution such as Northwestern. A full scholarship there easily worth over $50,000 a year, and only $5,250 is tax-exempt as employer education benefits. They can go to hell if they think they deserve some exempt status.
I think this fractures the NCAA and drops some schools into D-2 or creates a new Mega D-1 conference for the athletically rich universities. Or perhaps football and basketball programs will become their own entities attached to universities with athletes in those money sports not having to be full-time students.
This is gonna be a game changer to the college athletics model as we have known it. Also going to be interesting to see the impact Title IX has on this.
I think this fractures the NCAA and drops some schools into D-2 or creates a new Mega D-1 conference for the athletically rich universities. Or perhaps football and basketball programs will become their own entities attached to universities with athletes in those money sports not having to be full-time students.
This is gonna be a game changer to the college athletics model as we have known it. Also going to be interesting to see the impact Title IX has on this.
Elbutre88
Pretty much a regular
they're not even asking for money at this point. just medical and a promise that the school won't pull their scholarships. and as far as tuition being labeled as earnings, that's a stretch. and the price of all these schools is bullshit. it's all arbitrary. the accounting that goes on at these schools is laughable, there's no reason to trust any school out there when they cry about not making money in college athletics. the less profit they report, the more cash they get from the gov't in the form of subsidies.
also, pretty much every athletic department in the country pays the school for every scholarship they provide. so if you're talkin about NW, and you look at the inflated tuition price that the football/basketball/bowling team paid the school, those earnings reports start to look a whole lot different.
also, this is gonna take close to 5 years to work it's way through federal court, so nothing is gonna happen anytime soon.
also, pretty much every athletic department in the country pays the school for every scholarship they provide. so if you're talkin about NW, and you look at the inflated tuition price that the football/basketball/bowling team paid the school, those earnings reports start to look a whole lot different.
also, this is gonna take close to 5 years to work it's way through federal court, so nothing is gonna happen anytime soon.
Elbutre88
Pretty much a regular
if they're getting paid, the free market is probably the best model. jay bilas had a piece on olberman the other night that made some sense about signing a kid like johnny football for 3 years, and paying him whatever the school thinks is appropriate, or whatever the market bares. since he's signed for 3 years, he can't leave early without breaking that contract. would be really interesting to see that play out at basketball schools with one and done kids.
ArizonaKid
Pretty much a regular
The fact that the NCAA doesn't guarantee scholarships for 4 years as well as not allowing transfers to be immediately eligible at their new university is absolutely disgraceful.
Johnnyonthespot
CTG Regular
period
P-Unit
Beacon of Calmness
If they do tax the scholarships, what would most likely happen is that they will "gross up" the scholarships which basically means the scholarships will include the amount of taxes that would be required. The end result is schools will work harder to raise money from boosters and the cost of game day experiences (tickets, parking, food, drinks) will go up.
P-Unit
Beacon of Calmness
Wonder what the pro sports leagues think of this ruling. If you are an "employee" getting paid to play college sports, doesn't that ruin your eligibility? At this point, why can't an AAU team pay players to play for them at the HS level since the pay for play argument is now out the window.
This whole thing is messed up. I'm all for protecting the kids interests and making sure they have the proper care, but if they don't like the terms, then they shouldn't be accepting the scholarship in the first place. period.
This whole thing is messed up. I'm all for protecting the kids interests and making sure they have the proper care, but if they don't like the terms, then they shouldn't be accepting the scholarship in the first place. period.
TheGarfather
Pretty much a regular
The NCAA started this by being one of the most corrupt, inconsistent, and unfair organizations out there. They can look in the fucking mirror if they don't like it.
Alan Tongue
Pretty much a regular
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
Little is more evil than modern unions in the united states.
I guess once you start paying, you can revoke scholarships on performance right? So say a team Vastly underperforms to expectation .....like....hmmmmm....say.....ummmmm.... northwestern last year.....you can give an across the board pay cut and revoke scholarships ...right?
I guess once you start paying, you can revoke scholarships on performance right? So say a team Vastly underperforms to expectation .....like....hmmmmm....say.....ummmmm.... northwestern last year.....you can give an across the board pay cut and revoke scholarships ...right?
Elbutre88
Pretty much a regular
gimme a break, vk. what the ncaa has been getting away with for years as a tax free institution is a whole lot more evil than kids askin for guaranteed scholarships and guaranteed medical.
we can hypothesize all we want on the effects of what the REGIONAL nlrb ruled on, but the truth is that these kids were lookin for somethin to disrupt the system. you got a better idea on how they'd achieve that disruption?
we can hypothesize all we want on the effects of what the REGIONAL nlrb ruled on, but the truth is that these kids were lookin for somethin to disrupt the system. you got a better idea on how they'd achieve that disruption?
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
I don't want it disrupted nor do I begrudge anyone getting out of paying taxes.
Lacrosse kid bye bye, swim team bye bye, track and field team bye bye, most football programs bye bye,
Much like all unions these days, the ones who will get hurt most are the members
And as one of the biggest fans of the sport and what the football programs do for poor youth, I can honestly say my conscience won't let me watch it if they start paying the players as a policy.
Lacrosse kid bye bye, swim team bye bye, track and field team bye bye, most football programs bye bye,
Much like all unions these days, the ones who will get hurt most are the members
And as one of the biggest fans of the sport and what the football programs do for poor youth, I can honestly say my conscience won't let me watch it if they start paying the players as a policy.
Elbutre88
Pretty much a regular
once again, hypothesizing is great. it's even better that none of it matters. this still has to go the the actual NLRB, then to court, then to federal court, blah blah blah. why would all those programs disappear because of guaranteed medical treatment and guaranteed scholarships?
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
Its a stepping stone. Don't even pretend you don't know that.
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
It's glorified minor league sport, but only glorified for the institutions involved and not the individuals
No one complains about baseball's setup, let em get drafted out of high school and get paid if the organization is willing to take the risk and let collegiate athletics be what it should be, for student athletes.
No one complains about baseball's setup, let em get drafted out of high school and get paid if the organization is willing to take the risk and let collegiate athletics be what it should be, for student athletes.
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
Of union bosses? Tough one.
Player safety has never been better, game has never been safer....so what are you referring to? Dumb violation rules? Hypocrisy in decisions? Horrific pussification of the game in a societal attempt at castrating the American male?
All pales in comparison to this crap
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
just sit back and enjoy racquetball, it's still pure
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
I was responding to your comment about unsecured schollys not being a benefit. And makingsure you realize I don't consider it a job. Making sure you understood I was being clear in NOT contradicting myself.
I have a novel thought....if they think their life would be better without playing cfb then go that route. It isn't like they can't find work if that I s what they want, or a safer job if that is what they want, or study for an academic scholly if that is what they want.
Funny.....quite a few nfl players stay in college an extra year because they love it so much
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
At this point I view NCAA football and basketball (and baseball to a degree) as no less entertainment than I view the NFL, MLB, NBA and WWE.
Don't miss out on the bigger picture here, the NW ruling pertains to private universities only, just wait til this thing gets to the state levels, pro-union states will start getting the 5-star talent. Winner: B1G, they may have some vested interest in all of this.
Don't miss out on the bigger picture here, the NW ruling pertains to private universities only, just wait til this thing gets to the state levels, pro-union states will start getting the 5-star talent. Winner: B1G, they may have some vested interest in all of this.
Elbutre88
Pretty much a regular
this is my favorite argument. i love it. "if you don't like the status quo, then go away". ahhhh yes. the american ideal of quitting something instead of trying to change it, fix it, or stand up to the powers that be. just go away people, we're over here making money hand over fist and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. go way.
how dare some kid ask for guaranteed scholarship. the audacity! and he wants his ACL to be treated after we cut him? GET OFF MY LAWN. MERICA!!!!
it's amusing how anti-union you are here. the premise that these kids are playing under is bullshit. you're worried about the commercialization of college football? have you been watching the last ten years? come on. it's a flawed system and these kids said, "fuck this, i'm gonna fight for something", and you wanna shit all over it? this might be the 100% wrong approach, i don't know, but i do know that challenging the powers that be is something that i admire, and look up to.
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
eh .. a little dose of rebellion is a good thing ... especially at their age ... at least they are "trying" something. I guess that is better than most Americans under age 30 these days.
I think they are entitled assholes is all. I get what you are saying .... it is ok to know it benefits you and still want to improve your outcome. I just have a problem with someone complaining about exploitation in this country. You have a massive list of opportunity ... if you don't like a job or volunteer activity here, you can fairly easily find a replacement. "I want to volunteer for you and here are my rules" or "I want to work for you and here are my rules" just doesn't fly with me. If we were in a socialist country where they are forced into labor situations then we have a different issue, but these American players are whining 7 year old girls. Then modern unions come in and destroy the industry altogether ,.... or force a business to move their factory where they can make a profit ,,, or force a business to hire lesser employees or not fire incompetent ones ... threaten the business owners and managers ... threaten non union members etc etc ,,, it's a joke. So ya ... I hate unions cause they suck ass for all parties except union bosses.
Just wish the kids would challenge the federal government like the old days rather than expect it to take care of them.
And I will ask cfb to "get off my lawn" if they unionize.
I think they are entitled assholes is all. I get what you are saying .... it is ok to know it benefits you and still want to improve your outcome. I just have a problem with someone complaining about exploitation in this country. You have a massive list of opportunity ... if you don't like a job or volunteer activity here, you can fairly easily find a replacement. "I want to volunteer for you and here are my rules" or "I want to work for you and here are my rules" just doesn't fly with me. If we were in a socialist country where they are forced into labor situations then we have a different issue, but these American players are whining 7 year old girls. Then modern unions come in and destroy the industry altogether ,.... or force a business to move their factory where they can make a profit ,,, or force a business to hire lesser employees or not fire incompetent ones ... threaten the business owners and managers ... threaten non union members etc etc ,,, it's a joke. So ya ... I hate unions cause they suck ass for all parties except union bosses.
Just wish the kids would challenge the federal government like the old days rather than expect it to take care of them.
And I will ask cfb to "get off my lawn" if they unionize.
Elbutre88
Pretty much a regular
Look, these kids aren't exactly striking coal miners in Harlan county in the 30s, this ain't life or death, rah-rah shit. I understand that. We are talking about a group if kids with tremendous ability and opportunity. It's just really hard for me to knock some kind of disruption. Looking at how greedy and hypocritical the NCAA is and has been for the past 30 years--this is what they deserve. Some kind of disruption. It'd be really easy for the NCAA to just guarantee scholarships for life and guarantee medical coverage for football or sports-related injuries and this whole union thing would cave in on itself.
Don't know how the federal govt came into this conversation, but nobody is asking them for help.
Also--good luck unionizing college kids that aren't exactly sticking around for 4 years. Would hate to have that job.
Don't know how the federal govt came into this conversation, but nobody is asking them for help.
Also--good luck unionizing college kids that aren't exactly sticking around for 4 years. Would hate to have that job.
