This is sad love to watch him pitch.
- Thread starter Paulie The Vig
- Start date
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
The Mets paid him 100 mill for a no-hitter, and the rest went towards everything else.
JumpOnBoard
CTG Partner
I'd still choose the no hitter...
Paulie The Vig
Pretty much a regular
What's up begrudging a ballplayer money regardless of how much. I'm sure none of us would have turn it down and I'm sure none of us would want to get hurt and possibly not being able to come back. That 136 pitch No-Hitter really put him on a downward spiral but what was the manager to do pull him. Bad spot to be in. When he was Healthy best change-up in baseball and the best one you may ever see.
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Lareux
Guest
He had a great change up...it wasn't even the best we've seen in the past 20 years, let alone the best we may ever see.
And yes, the manager should have pulled him well before he got anywhere near that pitch count, regardless of the scoreboard. The situation dictated being more prudent with Santana. As you've said yourself...it was literally the beginning of the end of him as a real MLB pitcher.
Paulie The Vig
Pretty much a regular
Debating baseball is fun because each has there own opinion and of course it's to be respected as I respect your opinion about his change-up but can you name one or two because you maybe right and after so many years of baseball may have forgotten.
orange&white
Pretty much a regular
It's the best straight change I've seen. Some others had more movement. And I'm not counting relievers. Not a fair battle.
ManchesterUk
Fat Bloke
Before I opened this thread,I knew it was about D-Train or Johan.
When your body says its had enough and cant do it anymore,well,then,its the end.
Shame, but it happens to everybody.
Was a pleasure watching him,but dont feel sorry for him.
When your body says its had enough and cant do it anymore,well,then,its the end.
Shame, but it happens to everybody.
Was a pleasure watching him,but dont feel sorry for him.
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Lareux
Guest
Agreed, it's fun to debate baseball.
Why wouldn't you include a reliever in the convo? They still throw the pitch. Hoffman has to be on this list, but even if we don't use relievers Pedro and Glavine are probably the 2 best change ups seen in our generation.
Paulie The Vig
Pretty much a regular
You bring up good points and I didn't think of Relievers. Pedro and Glavine are certainly two great HOF's (One in and one going) pitchers. JS with a 139-78 1.13 Whip and 3.20 ERA LT losing a good potion of prime time years due to injury would have loved to see him stay healthy. Just part of the game used to also love to watch Mark Prior pitch (Reminded me a lot of Tom Seaver) and who knows what this kid would have done if he stayed healthy. I'm just old time baseball give me a 2-1 game where every pitch could be more of a game changer and that's my type of baseball.
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tipyerbartender1
Guest
Pedro was so good. When he was on, it was no match. He doesn't even get quite enough credit for his numbers as he spent his prime in the AL East in the juiced era. I'll never forget that playoff game against Cleveland, it was like home run derby for a few innings, both teams scoring oodles of runs. Then he came in on short rest in relief for like 5 or 6 innings, and Tribe couldn't hit him.
orange&white
Pretty much a regular
For me it is just because the big velocity spike going from starting to reliever makes a relievers change up all the more devasting. Could you imagine Pedro's already unhittable change up if he just threw one inning a la Hoffman or Gagne? We'll actually we can haha. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RN1nUnCr1QM
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Lareux
Guest
Pedro was unreal. He was just a freak. His change up was literally like watching someone throw a wiffle ball the way it moved. And it was routinely 10-15 mph slower than his fastball....and he could take more off when he needed to. He was a joy to watch pitch...and this is coming from a Yanks fan.
I loved him in Montreal, always loved the Expos with Delino Deshields, Marquis Grisson, Randy Johnson, Pedro, Moises Alou, Larry Walker, Dennis Martinez, John Wettland, etc, etc. That franchise was fucking stacked back then in the early to mid 90s. Then the '94 strike happened and the Expos were never the same due to the fire sale after the strike. Such a shame, that was a great team in 1994. I always liked their hats and colors too....the logo was sort of mysterious back then (pre google)....trying to figure out what it actually stood for. Done with the tangent...
I loved him in Montreal, always loved the Expos with Delino Deshields, Marquis Grisson, Randy Johnson, Pedro, Moises Alou, Larry Walker, Dennis Martinez, John Wettland, etc, etc. That franchise was fucking stacked back then in the early to mid 90s. Then the '94 strike happened and the Expos were never the same due to the fire sale after the strike. Such a shame, that was a great team in 1994. I always liked their hats and colors too....the logo was sort of mysterious back then (pre google)....trying to figure out what it actually stood for. Done with the tangent...
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Lareux
Guest
How could I forget Vladdy in my mentions? Holy shit, one of the best hitters (and cannons) I've ever seen. He was just shoe laces to eye balls, you couldn't throw a pitch he couldn't hit. Free swinging Vladdy was a favorite of mine for sure....he and Manny could just fucking rake at the plate back then.
[video=youtube;jdzM02BgL-k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdzM02BgL-k&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
[video=youtube;jdzM02BgL-k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdzM02BgL-k&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
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Lareux
Guest
This wasn't even fair...
[video=youtube;s29G5pJPrVo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s29G5pJPrVo&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
[video=youtube;s29G5pJPrVo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s29G5pJPrVo&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
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Lareux
Guest
Speaking of missile launchers for arms....another of my favorite players to have ever watched play the game....such a shame he didn't play his entire career in MLB, because he would most likely be the hit king as well as just being one of the best 5 tool players you'll ever watch play baseball.
He's as close to a lock for first ballot hall of famer as you can get in baseball these days. Griffey Jr, Jeter, Ichiro, Smoltz. Anyone else for sure (that isn't already in of course)?
[video=youtube;WYAxk01E404]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYAxk01E404&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
He's as close to a lock for first ballot hall of famer as you can get in baseball these days. Griffey Jr, Jeter, Ichiro, Smoltz. Anyone else for sure (that isn't already in of course)?
[video=youtube;WYAxk01E404]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYAxk01E404&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
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Lareux
Guest
Dude. Filthy fucking wiffle ball pitching.
[video=youtube;Ah7HTuCYSkE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah7HTuCYSkE&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
[video=youtube;Ah7HTuCYSkE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah7HTuCYSkE&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
orange&white
Pretty much a regular
Some greats posts sir. Those '94 expos prolly would of screwed up my childhood braves nl east run. Strike also ended a possible .350 50 150 season from the big hurt on the best or second best team in baseball. I know he is/was a first ballot hof, but I don't think that season he was having is discussed enough.
orange&white
Pretty much a regular
Speaking of Larry Walker.......Todd Helton has stated he was the best overall athlete he has seen. Over any other teammates in Mlb or any NFL guys when Todd was playing football at Tennessee. Walker was the epitome of a 5 tool player. That phrase is so over used, but he was legitimately it. Injuries and Coors make him a no go on the hof though.
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Lareux
Guest
orange&white
Pretty much a regular
Of course. I'd say there's a good chance just about any professional athlete was juicing don't you? Always a guessing game.
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Lareux
Guest
Who is he? We've talked about a lot of guys. I think you're either referring to Larry Walker or Frank Thomas.
Paulie The Vig
Pretty much a regular
Use to see and talk to Larry Walker all the time at one of the casino's that I worked (Don't want to mention) but he liked playing Blackjack and always came in with some buddies and he was very kind and courteous to the help. Didn't really toke well and played pretty much low limit but a nice guy.
