The debate over qb's..

[abcs]

Heard it again on the radio today, when they were bashing vick ( and having to make up an offense to adjust to him). I have said it since day 1, give me a pocket passer over a mobile qb or a scrambling qb any day of the week.

Look at the 4 remaining guys, Brady, Manning, Brees and Grossman, all are a bunch of stiffs but know how to read defenses. They look to pass first, and second thenlastly instead of running theyll throw it away. Sure it sounds good to have a guy who runs a 4.5 back at qb, but they dont win games. :smiley_acbe: So as the draft comes along, Give me Brady Quinn over Jemarcuss Russel.. :shake: Theres a reason guys like cunningham, vick and those type of qbs dont win superbowls much less playoff games.

 

[TheRooster]

abcs,

You don't have a friggin clue as to what you are talking about man!
:spank:

HAHA,

Just kidding bud, you know that.

I am finally on CTG! Good to see you are still in the game, who do you like this weekend??

 

[abcs]

Dude im tryin to get at you im.. get back at me

BTW what are u using to bet on games now?

 

[TheRooster]

I'm at work, No IM here.

Still on Bodog.

 

[Ripped71]

Russell doesn't scramble as much as the QB's you mentioned.......

 

[BeASaint]

pretty much russell doesn't scramble at all.....142 yards rushing this season. there are many other reasons why russell isn't as good right now as brady quinn is and "tendency to run" is definitely not one of them

 

[Johnny the Saint]

Russell is a physical specimen! He can fling it 40 yards sitting on his ass! I am sure Quinn will be a nice, efficient, pro. Russell is a rare physical talent that will make or break a team. The only question will be his decision making skills. He also possess great intangibles! He isn't some head case kid. I'd take a shot at greatness over a game manager any day.

 

[abcs]

i know russel doesnt scramble and hes not the vince young type.. i know that, but id take brady becuz he is a smarter qb and more consistent... the russel hype got blown out of proportion. Sure he has all the tools, but he doesnt bring it every week..

 

[BeASaint]

Russell is a physical specimen! He can fling it 40 yards sitting on his ass! I am sure Quinn will be a nice, efficient, pro. Russell is a rare physical talent that will make or break a team. The only question will be his decision making skills. He also possess great intangibles! He isn't some head case kid. I'd take a shot at greatness over a game manager any day.

i'm not trying to knock russell and say he isn't going to be a good NFL QB, it's just that he is nowhere near as polished right now as Quinn.

Quinn has played for two seasons in an offense run by one of the best NFL offensive coordinators. I'd hardly categorize Quinn's 69 TD and 14 int over 2 seasons as "game manager".

 

[abcs]

Yea game manager is crazy. The guy is 6 foot 4.. and in perfect shape. He can make all the throws and is basically a prototypical qb. He was playin with shitty athletes, although smardjza and mcknight werent bad. I think people dont need to sell quinn short becuz nd was overrated. Russel is a clown. He is like one of those hot blond girls, that you wonder why shes single all the time. Becuz she has baggage!! Russel will throw for 300 yards one game, then have 3 turnovers and do crap the next, remember flynn came in and put up huge numbers when he finally got a chance. Dont let size and stats fool ya, Ryan leaf looked real good in the combines as well

 

[tru]

abcs, everytime i see u open ur mouth ur foot an most tha time its feet go right in it

i guess steve young wasnt any good? john elway, fran tarkenton?

Look at the 4 remaining guys, Brady, Manning, Brees and Grossman, all are a bunch of stiffs but know how to read defenses......



all? yeah i guess grossman understood that packers D an viking D this season pretty well........? cunningham was a damn good qb, he cant play every posisition to win tha game. dont let ur hate of those type of players blind u from tha facts that he was a great player in tha nfl. more tds than ints in playoff games

 

[abcs]

Dude elway and young are pocket passers.. if it broke down they ran. I didnt say all qbs had to be a stiff like manning. Those guys look to pass first all the time.. guys like vick look to run and dont go through all the progressions. Elway had 300 yards rushing tops for 1 season.. He was a QB. Sure he could move out of the pocket if the play broke down and no one was open but its not like they called qb options and draws for him. His Passing stats are 3rd in compl 3rd in yards and 4th in tds all time. Thus he was a passer!

 

[abcs]

I didnt say cunningham was a bad qb. I just said for some reason that type of qb hasnt won the big game. Sure all pocket passers havent won the superbowl see dan marino. I just think they give their team the best chance to win! Sure youll see highlites from vick and vince.. but where were they this postseason? At home. Vick is under .500 his past 2 years 15 - 17 with the falcons. Of course he is more talented than schaub.. but for some reason 90% of the public thinks the falcons have a better chance to win the game if mexico wasnt the starter.

 

[abcs]

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
1988 chi L,12-20 | 27 54 407 0 3 | 3 12 0
1989 ram L,7-21 | 24 40 238 0 1 | 6 39 0
1990 was L,6-20 | 15 29 205 0 1 | 7 80 0
1992 nor W,36-20 | 19 35 219 2 0 | 2 19 0
1992 dal L,10-34 | 17 30 160 1 0 | 5 22 0
1995 det W,58-37 | 0 0 0 0 0 | 2 15 0
1995 dal L,11-30 | 11 26 161 0 1 | 3 19 1
1997 nyg W,23-22 | 15 36 203 1 1 | 7 38 0
1997 sfo L,22-38 | 18 40 331 3 1 | 2 14 0
1998 ari W,41-21 | 17 27 236 3 1 | 3 6 0
1998 atl L,27-30 | 29 48 266 2 0 | 6 13 1
1999 dal W,27-10 | 0 0 0 0 0 | 3 -4 0
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
TOTAL | 192 365 2426 12 9 | 49 273 2
---

Vicks postseason data
Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
2002 gnb W,27-7 | 13 25 117 1 0 | 10 64 0
2002 phi L,6-20 | 22 38 274 0 2 | 6 30 0
2004 stl W,47-17 | 12 16 82 2 0 | 8 119 0
2004 phi L,10-27 | 11 24 136 0 1 | 4 26 0
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
TOTAL | 58 103 609 3 3 | 28 239 0


First off it is a travesty that vick is gettin paid more than guys like brady or carson palmer.. Second off here are their w/l in the postseason when the games matter. Im not gonna argue with you or be confrontational. Ill just let the stats and the records speak for themselves

 

[tru]

ur reasoning isnt even close to bein close to correct. 16 fuckin years he shoulda been pretty high on most passin lists, he didnt miss very many regular season games in his career. he never had over 28 td passes in any season. elway also had over 3400 rushin yards, young over 4200, wouldnt shock me to see both when they retired top 10 in rushin yards by a QB. were they option type qbs? no but both did scramble, an both had decent ammount of yards rushin in they career. i know tha reason of this topic an ur reason for namin 3 qbs vick,cunningham im jus shocked u didnt throw in mcnair an mcnabb also. at some point ur eyes will open an u will see more.

 

[tru]

12 tds 9 ints. like i said randall cant play every position on tha field, he cant play D also.

vince was a rookie an look what he did. save all ur hate for texas an vince young for tha other topic.

 

[abcs]

Actually Mcnaab isnt like those 3 anymore.. Thats why i didnt mention him. Check his rushing yards the past few seasons( even the average amt per game . They are way down!!) Hes not running for 1000 yards like vick. You dont win games like that. This has nothing to do with race. It just so happens african american qbs are more mobile then most whites.

 

[abcs]

Its about wins and losses when the day is over. The 12 tds and 9 int are great and mean abs nothing to me
Brady threw 3 picks.. but he led the team down the field and won the game.. THus he is 12 - 1 as a starter in the postseason when games count. Fine when vick and cunningham retire, they can hold all the reg season rushing stats for a qb that they want.. will they have won meaningful games.

 

[abcs]

BTW im done debating this, since you brought up the race element. I just said qbs who like to run first. When ur qb is running for 600 - 800 yards in a season your not gonna win, and they havent won!! Theres no debate to that.

 

[Throwback420]

Vince Young will be one of the best QB's ever

 

[Troutman]

The NFL is all about a Pocket Passer, these running QBs will never be as succesfull as a true pocket passer. Vince Young will take atleast 3 or 4 years to realize this...Then he will be good, his runnig days will be limited once he gets a couple of concussions.

 

[abcs]

The NFL is all about a Pocket Passer, these running QBs will never be as succesfull as a true pocket passer. Vince Young will take atleast 3 or 4 years to realize this...Then he will be good, his runnig days will be limited once he gets a couple of concussions.

:shake: Exactly my point.

 

[abcs]

I have one question that i would love tru to answer.. If the running qb was so great ( I mean vick did run for an nfl record in yards ) Why wont they trade schaub, because its obvious he is less talented ??

 

[tru]

u somehow get it in ur mind that i liek vick, that i liked bruce gradkowski before also. understand i dont like either, vick has alot of talent. my reason for postin in here cause i see tha same shit from u all tha time on black qbs. "when will a black qb win tha big game..." an so on. besides doug williams theres been 2 other black qbs , an both had tha chance to win both games on final drives of tha game. u act like theres more black qbs in tha league so each year both teams in tha bowl should be black. a much smaller sample size for black qbs than white.

at tha start of this season outa tha 32 teams 6 teams had a startin black qb, if thangs was flipped around an u had 26 black startin qbs u would see more winnin tha "big games".

 

[abcs]

Like i said i never brought up race. Just so happens most black qbs are runners first. If there was more pocket passers there might be more of them in the nfl? Anyway .. well just see how great guys like vince and vick do when the playoffs come along. Also Well see if gradkowski has a job next year.

 

[bigbull29]

Russel is the mode of Dante Cullpepper. Big, strong arm, and can make any throw. Plus, he can put it in the air for over 70 yards. Brady is the "prototypical" NFL QB. He is already learning the pro offense. From a former NFL offensive coordinator and Super Bowl Champion coach. He also groomed a sixth round draft pick into a real good pro qb (Tom Brady). Down the road, with the right team and coach, J. Russel with be a good NFL QB.