The Anecdotal Evidence Does Not Look Good For Dick Bavetta

very damning video when you take into account the spread. I will say this about the whole scandal...

Whether Stern and the league was in on the scandal or not, they put themselves in this position with YEARS and YEARS of looking the other way on bad calls time and again. Refs have never been held accountable for making horrendous calls and if a coach,player,etc even said anything remotely questioning the ref then they were automatically hammered with a fine from the league.

Was there even a person in charge of monitoring these officials?? I mean really....and not just judging a ref by his overall % of getting calls right, but by situations that affect spreads and totals. As the saying goes, "where there is smoke, there's fire" and with the information that Bevetta's name was brought up and then you see visual evidence like that video, it certainly doesn't look good.

I believe the Refs knew that Stern and company were either A)incompetent,
B)too smug to admit they might have cheating officials
C)at the very worst were in on it

so the Refs knew this and were able to basically cheat the league with absolute immunity whenever they made a suspect call.
 
I will readily admit that what steroids are to baseball (at every level), point-spreads are to basketball (at every level). Meaning that it will always be something basketball has to live down, because it will always be so easy to manipulate for the players and the refs.

However, even with the editing and commentary, I'm not convinced at all. The fact that they showed a single non-call to support 3 calls that did end up being fouls obviously means nothing. Then, you have really, one or two acts of bad officiating. That happens. I think most of us remember that game, and I remember much more feeling as if, Wow, Miami is really making plays, which they did, and less that this game is fixed.

Gonna have to see some more evidence here.
 
The funny part to me as a Las Vegas resident is that Stern has taken what he believes is the "moral high-ground" on gambling when discusiing the possibility of a franchise moving here.

Hard to corrupt the corrupted , Mr Stern
 
I will readily admit that what steroids are to baseball (at every level), point-spreads are to basketball (at every level). Meaning that it will always be something basketball has to live down, because it will always be so easy to manipulate for the players and the refs.

However, even with the editing and commentary, I'm not convinced at all. The fact that they showed a single non-call to support 3 calls that did end up being fouls obviously means nothing. Then, you have really, one or two acts of bad officiating. That happens. I think most of us remember that game, and I remember much more feeling as if, Wow, Miami is really making plays, which they did, and less that this game is fixed.

Gonna have to see some more evidence here.

Very interest points, however I dont know about everyone else but when I watch a game my first instinct is never to think that the game might be fixed but more so that one team is just playing better than the other. Maybe I am in the minority but that is just me, but after seeing videos and reading articles like this it stops and makes you wonder.
 
However, even with the editing and commentary, I'm not convinced at all. The fact that they showed a single non-call to support 3 calls that did end up being fouls obviously means nothing. Then, you have really, one or two acts of bad officiating. That happens. I think most of us remember that game, and I remember much more feeling as if, Wow, Miami is really making plays, which they did, and less that this game is fixed.

Gonna have to see some more evidence here.



I hear what your saying and agree to a point, there is no way I would bet my life that this game was fixed.....BUT when you take into account....

A) what the spread was and how these calls influenced it.
B) Bavetta was the one making a couple really bad calls
C) Bavetta was also an official in the infamous Sac/LA Game 6 fiasco.
D) Bavetta's name is now being brought up as a questionable figure in the whole Donaghy mess

As I said where there is smoke, there is fire and I think that is certainly reasonable to assume in this case. Also i'm more than confident that someone could find more visual evidence of these claims if they had the time and resources to go back and re-watch game tape and see how calls like this affected spreads and totals. If the NBA had this kind of committee from Day 1, we would not be discussing the legitimacy of the NBA right now.
 
If the NBA had this kind of committee from Day 1, we would not be discussing the legitimacy of the NBA right now.

And I think that's the main point. Basketball is a very easy game to fix compared to other majors. And the NBA shouldn't dismiss that notion.

I'm no conspiracy theorist, and I've always said that having people at this high a level fixing games just goes against common sense because they're so well taken care of... However, we're not talking about players (though obviously them fixing games is not impossible; just extremely unlikely), we're talking about officials, and some of them don't make enough money to rule out a fair likelihood of them doing this. But, Bavetta, I assume, makes a good amount of money(200k+?), and I can't see the logic behind him wanting to fix games unless his family was being held hostage.

All that said, there's nothing wrong with questioning the legitimacy of the outcome of some of these games... But, to call out someone in particular, based on little evidence is tantamount to a witch hunt, which is what the NBA is trying to avoid. Just the same, accusing Stern of wanting a particular team or teams to win seems silly to me. What we all see when certain calls favor the higher market teams is at best an act of the subconscious. These officials can't be 100% objective, and sometimes they favor the star-power by giving them the benefit of the doubt. Conversely, some officials favor the "David" as opposed to the Goliath. And even then it seems shady, but it's just human nature.
 
And I think that's the main point. Basketball is a very easy game to fix compared to other majors. And the NBA shouldn't dismiss that notion.

I'm no conspiracy theorist, and I've always said that having people at this high a level fixing games just goes against common sense because they're so well taken care of... However, we're not talking about players (though obviously them fixing games is not impossible; just extremely unlikely), we're talking about officials, and some of them don't make enough money to rule out a fair likelihood of them doing this. But, Bavetta, I assume, makes a good amount of money(200k+?), and I can't see the logic behind him wanting to fix games unless his family was being held hostage.

All that said, there's nothing wrong with questioning the legitimacy of the outcome of some of these games... But, to call out someone in particular, based on little evidence is tantamount to a witch hunt, which is what the NBA is trying to avoid. Just the same, accusing Stern of wanting a particular team or teams to win seems silly to me. What we all see when certain calls favor the higher market teams is at best an act of the subconscious. These officials can't be 100% objective, and sometimes they favor the star-power by giving them the benefit of the doubt. Conversely, some officials favor the "David" as opposed to the Goliath. And even then it seems shady, but it's just human nature.


Very intelligent post IMO. Nothing wrong with examining these situations but seems like everyone is guilty before we know anything other some gossip . I said this before the public wants to BELIEVE this is going on so it makes up its mind quickly . Which seems to happen with every newsworthy story these days . The scary part is convicted felons are the guys providing the "gossip" and right away it is taken as truth.

Since I played a ton of sports my entire life I know this most umps and refs are rather clueless indivuals. Who once you question them take the I am right stance and tend to do even worse after that almost out of stubborness . I go through this shit nightily playing Hoops arguing with refs about the most obvious things and it always comes down to they didnt see it or thats what I saw no matter how ridiculous it is or obvious it was . So alot of these guys are doing high school and college so really is it a suprise the guys at the next level are any different . I probably played about 5000 or more organized basketball or baseball games and probably would struggle to name 5 refs or umps who i thought consistently did a good job in the past 25-30 years I have played. Some of these guys have done big time college games as well and a year prior where doing some BS high school game.

Basically all I am saying is the refs and umps are just regular guys and human . As easy as some of the shit seems to be me still have to say they are just human . I dont even think most of them care how great a game they call as long as its good enough to notget noticed where as gambler we NOTICE everything . Also they have attitudes just as much as the players do so I dont doubt they are spiteful at times in regards to calling fouls or not calling them .

:shake:
 
this is from a Bill Simmons article in 2002:

Question: What was the most disturbing subplot of the playoffs?
Answer: The officiating, also the most disturbing subplot of the past four playoffs. If you examine the last four NBA playoff campaigns, during every situation where the league definitively "needed" one of the two teams involved to win -- either to A) change the momentum of a series so it didn't end prematurely, B) keep an attractive, big-market team alive in a series, or C) advance an attractive, big-market team to another round -- the officiating appeared to be slanted towards the team that needed that game. I use the phrase "appeared to be," because reviewing an official's performance is purely subjective. Maybe I'm dead-wrong.

These were just the games that jump out in my mind (again, I could be wrong):

1999, Knicks-Pacers, Game 3 ... LJ sinks a game-winning four-pointer (called a continuation foul by referee Jess Kersey even though LJ was fouled a full second before he released the ball).

1999, Knicks-Pacers, Game 6 ... Knicks last chance to close out Indy before the series shifts back to Indiana for Game 7 ... they get every call.

1999, Spurs-Knicks, Game 3 ... down 2-0, the Knicks get every call in their first home game and win their only game of the series.

2000, Knicks-Heat, Game 7 ... Knicks advance to the conference finals ... falling out of bounds, Latrell Sprewell awarded a timeout by referee Bennett Salvatore with 2.1 seconds left even though none of the Knicks called for one ... Sprewell admits after the game that he hadn't called a timeout ... the Miami players chase the referees off the court after the game, yelling that they had been robbed ... after the game, Jamal Mashburn tells reporters, "They had three officials in their pocket" and Tim Hardaway refers to referee Dick Bavetta as "Knick Bavetta."

2000, Lakers-Blazers, Game 7 ... LA shoots 21 more free throws and rallies back from a 17-point deficit in the final seven minutes ... Shaq plays an illegal defense down the stretch, undaunted ... Rasheed Wallace absolutely gets manhandled down the stretch, yet doesn't get a single call ... up by four with 25 seconds left, Shaq body-blocks Steve Smith out of bounds and the refs don't make the call (the most egregious non-call in recent memory).

2002, Celtics-Nets, Game 4 ... Celts up 2-1 ... the Nets are inexplicably allowed to push and shove Kenny Anderson and Pierce while they dribble the ball ... a number of head-scratchers go against Boston, including three offensive charges down the stretch ... four different "bull-(bleep)" chants during the game.

2002, Lakers-Kings, Game 6 ... LA needs a win to stay alive ... from an officiating standpoint, the most one-sided game of the past decade ... at least six dubious calls against the Kings in the fourth quarter alone ... LA averaged 22 free throws a game during the first five games of the series, then attempted 27 freebies in the fourth quarter alone of Game 6 ... rumors that David Stern wanted to pull a Vince McMahon and declare himself "The special guest referee" for this game prove unfounded.

(By the way, I would feel remiss if I didn't share this information: Dick Bavetta was assigned to every one of the above games. That's an absolute fact. You can look it up. Doesn't mean anything ... I just felt the need to pass that along. It sure looks bad, doesn't it? Maybe the league could do a favor for Bavetta and not assign him to Game 3 of the Finals, especially if the Lakers jump to a 2-0 lead over New Jersey. You wouldn't want to rile up those conspiracy theorists or anything. Ummmm ...)
 
Aside from conspiracy theories I think pro sports do play favorites when handing out playoff assignments rather then go with the best for the job or at least the best that season.

Is it any different though then managers and coaches getting jobs or recognition based on how they are percieved compared to actual results ?? Just seems to happen in all walks of life. Does the best guy or girl always get the promotion at work ? There is just some BS everywhere if we look close enough except we let it slide in everyday life and seem to want to hold sports to higher standards .

Would a high ranking manager at a corporation report his top employee for using cocaine at work or would he turn his head as long as he continued to produce ? Isnt that what happened in pro sports at various times with substance abuse and / or performance enhancing drugs?

Why do we give other people a pass and be so hard line on these guys ?

Just a comment..
 
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seriously

how shady is the NBA? I don't think we'll ever really know
 
Since I played a ton of sports my entire life I know this most umps and refs are rather clueless indivuals.

this is the key point. nba refs (refs in general really) are fucking awful. this is why i don't by the whole conspiracy talk, cuz its not like they only screw up when the league has somethin to gain or in critical situations. they screw up all season long.
 
falling out of bounds, Latrell Sprewell awarded a timeout by referee Bennett Salvatore with 2.1 seconds left even though none of the Knicks called for one ... Sprewell admits after the game that he hadn't called a timeout

Simple incompetence cant mistake no TO signal from a team to mean an TO signal. A TO signal in basketball is pretty damn easy to recognise when it exists.
 
yah thats pretty bad. in t/wreck's video, bavetta ignores a timeout call by prince at the end of the game.

it just makes more sense to me that these guys are fucking atrocious at their jobs than that stern and the league are fixing games.

but the evidence is very damaging to the point that the notion that games are fixed is very plausible.
 
Simple incompetence cant mistake no TO signal from a team to mean an TO signal. A TO signal in basketball is pretty damn easy to recognise when it exists.

as a ref in that spot, you have to be looking for a timeout call, so I don't find it completely crazy that it was called by "accident"


yah thats pretty bad. in t/wreck's video, bavetta ignores a timeout call by prince at the end of the game.

it just makes more sense to me that these guys are fucking atrocious at their jobs than that stern and the league are fixing games.

but the evidence is very damaging to the point that the notion that games are fixed is very plausible.

bavetta is all about the limelight and getting attention. he wanted to call 5 seconds. now whether or not it was to help the spread, i dont know
 
i'm not surprised at all. this is why i hate the NBA unless I'm bettting or the Celtics are involved
 
I dont believe the NBA can truly be THAT rigged. If so, eventually the word will get out. In 10, maybe 20 years, everything will come out. Until then, I'll enjoy the best sport out there. skill, talent, excitement, nothing can touch the NBA
 
I dont believe the NBA can truly be THAT rigged. If so, eventually the word will get out. In 10, maybe 20 years, everything will come out. Until then, I'll enjoy the best sport out there. skill, talent, excitement, nothing can touch the NBA


Say What ?

To each his own , I guess.
 
i know when i umpired high school games, all my calls were geared to getting the game done as quick as possible, my k zone changed with what needed
 
yah thats pretty bad. in t/wreck's video, bavetta ignores a timeout call by prince at the end of the game.

it just makes more sense to me that these guys are fucking atrocious at their jobs than that stern and the league are fixing games.

but the evidence is very damaging to the point that the notion that games are fixed is very plausible.

And that is why I hope to cash in with Lakers 1h later..hehe.. Please Dick Bavetta juz fix this game for us hehe.....
 
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