Toronto_Mike
Scent of a Woman
Ha how ironic we discuss about what would happen in the second half of the season and now he's gone.
The fall of the Suns begins.
The fall of the Suns begins.
Terry Porter out...
- Thread starter Toronto_Mike
- Start date
OM was just joking in that thread TM...this happened hours ago. I dont think the fall of the Suns begins. I think Stoudemire stays. I think they trade Shaq if they can, and get back to playing Suns basketball and become a much better team.
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
I have a weird feeling they're not going to trade Shaq.
I think they trade Amare and dial it way back preparing to lose Nash next year.
I think it's about saving money with this team all of the sudden--not that paying Porter not to coach for two years helps that, but I think they're going into full restructuring mode. I don't believe they knew the lynchpin that D'Antoni was and how south they'd go.
I think they trade Amare and dial it way back preparing to lose Nash next year.
I think it's about saving money with this team all of the sudden--not that paying Porter not to coach for two years helps that, but I think they're going into full restructuring mode. I don't believe they knew the lynchpin that D'Antoni was and how south they'd go.
Smokedawg
Eagles Fan
All of a sudden?? Theyve been selling draft picks for cash for like 4 years now...they sold Luol Deng, Nate Robinson, Rudy Fernandez, Rajon Rondo, etc...
Sarver (the owner) refuses to pay the luxury tax but then goes out and trades for shaq....hes a weird dude
Smokedawg
Eagles Fan
Kurt thomas is another example
they didnt wanna pay him so they traded him and 2 FIRST ROUND PICKS (!!) to Seattle i think it was for a second rounder just so they didnt have to pay his contract
i kill kerr as much as anyone, and i think he deserves it, but his hands are tied to a degree
they didnt wanna pay him so they traded him and 2 FIRST ROUND PICKS (!!) to Seattle i think it was for a second rounder just so they didnt have to pay his contract
i kill kerr as much as anyone, and i think he deserves it, but his hands are tied to a degree
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
All of a sudden??
"Sudden? He was in intensive care for six weeks."
"Yeah, but the end, when he actually died, was very sudden."
=)
"Sudden? He was in intensive care for six weeks."
"Yeah, but the end, when he actually died, was very sudden."
=)
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
they didnt wanna pay him so they traded him and 2 FIRST ROUND PICKS (!!) to Seattle i think it was for a second rounder just so they didnt have to pay his contract
I don't really follow the NBA well enough, but if you actually traded Kurt Thomas (a former Knick, someone Joe is actually a fan of) for even one first round pick you got taken. Two and your name better be Elgin Baylor or you're fired.
I don't really follow the NBA well enough, but if you actually traded Kurt Thomas (a former Knick, someone Joe is actually a fan of) for even one first round pick you got taken. Two and your name better be Elgin Baylor or you're fired.
Throwback420
Diehard L.A. fan
what took so long ?
Smokedawg
Eagles Fan
No...what happened was:
Seattle got:
Kurt Thomas
2 First Round Picks
Phoenix got:
1 Second Round Pick
They basically gave Seattle 2 first rounders so they didnt have to pay thomas
guaranteeed
Pretty much a regular
from Simmons last year
4. What if Suns owner Robert Sarver said, "Screw it, I'll pay the luxury tax every year?"
Well, the following three things would have definitely and unquestionably happened: The Suns would have used the No. 7 pick on either Luol Deng or Andre Igoudala in 2004 (instead of unloading that pick to Chicago for $3 million and the No. 21 pick in 2005); they would have used the No. 21 pick on Rajon Rondo in 2006 (instead of selling it to Boston for cash and the No. 27 pick in 2007); and they wouldn't have traded Kurt Thomas to Seattle along with their No. 1s in 2008 and 2010. Some people would throw in the Joe Johnson deal here (Johnson to Atlanta for Boris Diaw and two No. 1s), but that wasn't a luxury tax move; they made an effort to re-sign Johnson and he wanted to leave.
Just for the hell of it, let's give them Igoudala in that '04 draft because he's better than Deng, and they might have taken him anyway. And let's say they don't make the Shaq/Marion trade because they wouldn't have needed to dump Marcus Banks in the deal (they wouldn't have signed him if they had Rondo for one-fourth the price), and besides, they already have Kurt Thomas. Here's your 2008 Suns roster right now: Nash, Barbosa and Rondo as the guards; Igoudala, Hill and Bell at the swing spots; and Stoudemire, Marion, Diaw and Thomas up front ... as well as the rights to their No. 1 and Atlanta's No. 1 in this year's draft.
That's not even a pipe dream or an imagine-if-this-scenario-had-played-out roster. Lemme put this in caps for you, S.A.S.-style: PEOPLE, THAT WOULD BE PHOENIX'S ROSTER IF SARVER PAID THE LUXURY TAX ALL ALONG!!!!! Can you imagine? Is that the greatest 10-man rotation of all-time? Would they have won 75 games? We'll never know. What's tragic about the Suns' current situation is how close they came to being positioned for the short term and long term better than any franchise since the '86 Celtics: They would have been the runaway favorites this season, and they would have been set for an abnormally long time because of their young guys.
(Note to the Phoenix fans: You can now light yourselves on fire.)
4. What if Suns owner Robert Sarver said, "Screw it, I'll pay the luxury tax every year?"
Well, the following three things would have definitely and unquestionably happened: The Suns would have used the No. 7 pick on either Luol Deng or Andre Igoudala in 2004 (instead of unloading that pick to Chicago for $3 million and the No. 21 pick in 2005); they would have used the No. 21 pick on Rajon Rondo in 2006 (instead of selling it to Boston for cash and the No. 27 pick in 2007); and they wouldn't have traded Kurt Thomas to Seattle along with their No. 1s in 2008 and 2010. Some people would throw in the Joe Johnson deal here (Johnson to Atlanta for Boris Diaw and two No. 1s), but that wasn't a luxury tax move; they made an effort to re-sign Johnson and he wanted to leave.
Just for the hell of it, let's give them Igoudala in that '04 draft because he's better than Deng, and they might have taken him anyway. And let's say they don't make the Shaq/Marion trade because they wouldn't have needed to dump Marcus Banks in the deal (they wouldn't have signed him if they had Rondo for one-fourth the price), and besides, they already have Kurt Thomas. Here's your 2008 Suns roster right now: Nash, Barbosa and Rondo as the guards; Igoudala, Hill and Bell at the swing spots; and Stoudemire, Marion, Diaw and Thomas up front ... as well as the rights to their No. 1 and Atlanta's No. 1 in this year's draft.
That's not even a pipe dream or an imagine-if-this-scenario-had-played-out roster. Lemme put this in caps for you, S.A.S.-style: PEOPLE, THAT WOULD BE PHOENIX'S ROSTER IF SARVER PAID THE LUXURY TAX ALL ALONG!!!!! Can you imagine? Is that the greatest 10-man rotation of all-time? Would they have won 75 games? We'll never know. What's tragic about the Suns' current situation is how close they came to being positioned for the short term and long term better than any franchise since the '86 Celtics: They would have been the runaway favorites this season, and they would have been set for an abnormally long time because of their young guys.
(Note to the Phoenix fans: You can now light yourselves on fire.)
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
Seattle got:
Kurt Thomas
2 First Round Picks
Phoenix got:
1 Second Round Pick
This is arguably the worst trade I've ever seen. That Pau trade last year was pretty dumb, though I actually believe the NBA helps trades that help the league as a whole along so it didn't totally shock me. But this? I mean, what the holy f**k is that?
Kurt Thomas
2 First Round Picks
Phoenix got:
1 Second Round Pick
This is arguably the worst trade I've ever seen. That Pau trade last year was pretty dumb, though I actually believe the NBA helps trades that help the league as a whole along so it didn't totally shock me. But this? I mean, what the holy f**k is that?
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
(Note to the Phoenix fans: You can now light yourselves on fire.)
Nice.
Nice.
Smokedawg
Eagles Fan
straight salary dump
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
Who cares if it's a salary dump. I mean, were even the Isiah Thomas Knicks that stupid? (Wait, don't answer that.)
Is it really worth two years of first round picks to dump some salary?
Is it really worth two years of first round picks to dump some salary?
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
well, when you factor in he wouldnt have to pay the first round picks either and that hes a cheap fucking bastard, then yeah, to him i guess it is...
No wonder this team's never won s**t. Now we know, they're winning in spite of their organization.
No wonder this team's never won s**t. Now we know, they're winning in spite of their organization.
guaranteeed
Pretty much a regular
Hes not the best GM but just look at what the owners have forced him to do, He didn't stand a chance.
JPicks
Pretty much a regular
Gentry wants Suns back to 'breakneck pace'
Terry Porter is out as coach of the Suns. The failed effort to tame the Suns' offense went out the door with him.
The sputtering Suns fired Porter just four months into his first season as Phoenix coach and replaced him with assistant coach Alvin Gentry. Gentry promptly promised a return to the style so successful under Porter's predecessor, Mike D'Antoni.
"We are who we are and I think we have to go back to trying to establish a breakneck pace like we've had in the past," Gentry said at a news conference Monday announcing his promotion.
Porter out as Suns coach, but problems remain
Players mum on coaching change
Bordow: Failure weighs heavily on Kerr
Phoenix (28-23) lost five of eight going into the All-Star break and trails Utah by one game for the eighth and final playoff spot in the West.
"We have enough talent that we should not be on the outside looking in right now," Gentry said.
The Suns' Grant Hill was with the Detroit Pistons when Gentry replaced the fired Doug Collins there.
"Considering the circumstances, considering what we've been through, he's probably the perfect person to take over at this time," Hill said after Monday's practice.
Gentry said the team needs to revert to the game that brought out the best in Steve Nash. Nash, twice the league MVP with the Suns, called the coaching change "a difficult part of our business," but he welcomed the decision to go back to the high-octane game.
"That's a pretty natural thing for me and for our group, just kind of pick the pace up a little bit and open up avenues for our guys to excel," Nash said.
Gentry and Nash both said Shaquille O'Neal showed late last season he can be effective in a running system.
"The last 18 games we were 15-3 and we averaged 112 points a game with him in our lineup," Gentry said. "There's no reason — you saw him yesterday (in the All-Star Game) — why we can't run with him."
But the transition won't happen overnight, Nash said.
"We've got to get in shape, we've got to get that mentality back," he said. "I think we've also got to get some cohesion, find an understanding, a feeling between us that we're going to read and react rather than be as deliberate as we were. It takes time but I think it's worthwhile."
O'Neal, citing a cold and cough, did not talk to reporters after practice.
The Suns are the eighth team to fire a coach this season, meaning more than one-quarter of the league's coaches are gone at the All-Star break.
General manager Steve Kerr said he went to Porter's home Sunday to tell him of the decision.
"I hired Terry because I believed in him. He's got a ton of integrity and dignity and class, and he's got a great work ethic," Kerr said. "I hired him because I believed he was the best man for the job."
But Kerr said he probably underestimated the difficulty of the transition from D'Antoni's unorthodox style.
Porter, who played in the NBA for 17 seasons, was an assistant with the Pistons when he was hired by the Suns. The intention was for him to bring the Pistons' defense-oriented style with him. It was a bad fit.
"In the last month, it became apparent to me that, look, this is not working,' Kerr said, "what we're trying is not working.
"I think we still can make this a very successful season. This was a move I think we had to make in order to give our team the best chance for success."
Kerr would not rule out a trade. There has been widespread speculation that All-Star starter Amare Stoudemire, or even O'Neal, might be dealt before Thursday's deadline, primarily for financial reasons.
But, Kerr said, "I'd like to keep what we have and go forward and see what we can do. We've got a lot of potential here."
He said he hasn't given up on improving the Suns' defense. Gentry, though, said that the ultra up-tempo style he wants leads to statistics that make the defense seem worse than it really is.
Gentry, 53, was the only holdover from D'Antoni's staff in Phoenix. His hiring as assistant coach in 2004 coincided with the arrival of Nash. What followed were four highly entertaining seasons of 54 wins or more.
"Obviously he's a great guy and he'll step in and try to get them back on line," D'Antoni said in New York. "It's tough — 30 games (actually 31) to go is not the easiest thing in the world."
Porter was in the first year of a three-year deal worth about $6 million to replace D'Antoni, who left to coach the New York Knicks.
D'Antoni is a coach who lets his players run and shoot, and maybe play defense once in a while. It was Kerr's insistence on emphasizing defense that led, in large part, to D'Antoni's departure.
Gentry was the obvious replacement for Porter, Kerr said.
"He knows this team better than anybody," Kerr said. "He's been here for the last 4 1/2 seasons. He knows our personnel and he knows what makes us tick."
Highly popular with Suns players, Gentry has been a coach in the NBA for 20 years, including interim head coaching stints with Miami and Detroit. He was coach of the Los Angeles Clippers from 2000 to 2003.
The decision to replace Porter came in a series of meetings between owner Robert Sarver and Kerr reviewing the entire basketball operation.
Terry Porter is out as coach of the Suns. The failed effort to tame the Suns' offense went out the door with him.
The sputtering Suns fired Porter just four months into his first season as Phoenix coach and replaced him with assistant coach Alvin Gentry. Gentry promptly promised a return to the style so successful under Porter's predecessor, Mike D'Antoni.
"We are who we are and I think we have to go back to trying to establish a breakneck pace like we've had in the past," Gentry said at a news conference Monday announcing his promotion.
Porter out as Suns coach, but problems remain
Players mum on coaching change
Bordow: Failure weighs heavily on Kerr
Phoenix (28-23) lost five of eight going into the All-Star break and trails Utah by one game for the eighth and final playoff spot in the West.
"We have enough talent that we should not be on the outside looking in right now," Gentry said.
The Suns' Grant Hill was with the Detroit Pistons when Gentry replaced the fired Doug Collins there.
"Considering the circumstances, considering what we've been through, he's probably the perfect person to take over at this time," Hill said after Monday's practice.
Gentry said the team needs to revert to the game that brought out the best in Steve Nash. Nash, twice the league MVP with the Suns, called the coaching change "a difficult part of our business," but he welcomed the decision to go back to the high-octane game.
"That's a pretty natural thing for me and for our group, just kind of pick the pace up a little bit and open up avenues for our guys to excel," Nash said.
Gentry and Nash both said Shaquille O'Neal showed late last season he can be effective in a running system.
"The last 18 games we were 15-3 and we averaged 112 points a game with him in our lineup," Gentry said. "There's no reason — you saw him yesterday (in the All-Star Game) — why we can't run with him."
But the transition won't happen overnight, Nash said.
"We've got to get in shape, we've got to get that mentality back," he said. "I think we've also got to get some cohesion, find an understanding, a feeling between us that we're going to read and react rather than be as deliberate as we were. It takes time but I think it's worthwhile."
O'Neal, citing a cold and cough, did not talk to reporters after practice.
The Suns are the eighth team to fire a coach this season, meaning more than one-quarter of the league's coaches are gone at the All-Star break.
General manager Steve Kerr said he went to Porter's home Sunday to tell him of the decision.
"I hired Terry because I believed in him. He's got a ton of integrity and dignity and class, and he's got a great work ethic," Kerr said. "I hired him because I believed he was the best man for the job."
But Kerr said he probably underestimated the difficulty of the transition from D'Antoni's unorthodox style.
Porter, who played in the NBA for 17 seasons, was an assistant with the Pistons when he was hired by the Suns. The intention was for him to bring the Pistons' defense-oriented style with him. It was a bad fit.
"In the last month, it became apparent to me that, look, this is not working,' Kerr said, "what we're trying is not working.
"I think we still can make this a very successful season. This was a move I think we had to make in order to give our team the best chance for success."
Kerr would not rule out a trade. There has been widespread speculation that All-Star starter Amare Stoudemire, or even O'Neal, might be dealt before Thursday's deadline, primarily for financial reasons.
But, Kerr said, "I'd like to keep what we have and go forward and see what we can do. We've got a lot of potential here."
He said he hasn't given up on improving the Suns' defense. Gentry, though, said that the ultra up-tempo style he wants leads to statistics that make the defense seem worse than it really is.
Gentry, 53, was the only holdover from D'Antoni's staff in Phoenix. His hiring as assistant coach in 2004 coincided with the arrival of Nash. What followed were four highly entertaining seasons of 54 wins or more.
"Obviously he's a great guy and he'll step in and try to get them back on line," D'Antoni said in New York. "It's tough — 30 games (actually 31) to go is not the easiest thing in the world."
Porter was in the first year of a three-year deal worth about $6 million to replace D'Antoni, who left to coach the New York Knicks.
D'Antoni is a coach who lets his players run and shoot, and maybe play defense once in a while. It was Kerr's insistence on emphasizing defense that led, in large part, to D'Antoni's departure.
Gentry was the obvious replacement for Porter, Kerr said.
"He knows this team better than anybody," Kerr said. "He's been here for the last 4 1/2 seasons. He knows our personnel and he knows what makes us tick."
Highly popular with Suns players, Gentry has been a coach in the NBA for 20 years, including interim head coaching stints with Miami and Detroit. He was coach of the Los Angeles Clippers from 2000 to 2003.
The decision to replace Porter came in a series of meetings between owner Robert Sarver and Kerr reviewing the entire basketball operation.
Ramathorn02
Pretty much a regular
tuck321
Not all those who wander are lost
That works for me.
Gorgolon Lives
The Reverend of CTG
Reports said Porter had his team out for walk thru's at 8am on game day. Maybe he's better for a young team...
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