Super Bowl reflections

tee*dub

tee*dub

Head of Loggerhead Turtle Society
I won a ton on the game but I really felt empty afterwards.. Very strange feeling for me because I am usually not attached to any certain team beyond the wagers I have that particular day.. Have sort of trained myself to be this way as "homerism" is a very dangerous aspect of this profession..

Having said that-- I REALLY wanted Warner to get that win.. Didn't realize I was as big of a fan of his until after the game.. He is such a class act.

Read an article about him.. attached below: He is geniune and after all he has been through I really was pulling for him... Anyone else feel this way last night?
 
Kurt and Brenda Warner pay tab for Steelers fans


Sunday, Feb. 01 2009
Arizona quarterback Kurt Warner and wife, Brenda, have a family tradition of
picking up the check for another table whenever they eat out. And they didn't
let team allegiances get in the way Friday. While dining at The Cheesecake
Factory in Tampa, the Warners selected a group of 20 Pittsburgh Steelers fans
and paid for their meal.

"We started doing that when we were in St. Louis and the manager would always
give us our meal for free whenever we ate out," Brenda Warner said. "I had been
a single mother living on food stamps at one time who couldn't ever afford to
eat out, and I never understood why people give free meals to people who can
afford them."

The Warners started a tradition of allowing their seven children to pick one
family in the restaurant, and they try to quietly pay that table's tab before
slipping out the door.

"It's gotten to be part of a game with the kids," Brenda Warner said. "They'll
say 'Oh, that family has a lot of kids, dinner must be expensive.' Or 'They
look old, maybe it's hard for them to afford eating out a lot.' We try to be
discreet about it, because we don't want people trying to get picked."
 
found myself cheering for him as well ...

i also dont like it when one team is getting the short end of the stick from officials ( a raider fan syndrome ) so that made me start cheering for cards to win straight up as well.

nice nfl year Tee and grats on a nice super bowl
 
I agree Tee it was hard to not want Warner to win it yesterday . The best thing about Arizona is they can really feel or say they got the most out of there talent when it counted most . They played with heart and dignity .

I saw that they picked up the tab for some Steelers fans as well . Now look at where the guy started and how he ended . Probably one of the best drop back Qb's ever to play in the NFL. He doesnt get the same respect as others because he makes it look effortless and you dont realize how tough some of his throws are . Not being blessed with eye catching athletic ability he does need a good OL and solid WR's to maximize his performance but thats not a bad thing IMO. Which again takes away from his superstar shine ..

One issue I have with ARIZONA is the fact all season if you look at the end of 1st Half's that scenario played out all to often . They almost always left points OTB before half and yesterday they saw a 14 pt swing . I even called it that ZONA would probably not put up any points there but obviously not a pick 6 . Thats one huge flaw the offense had IMO...:shake:

 
In all seriousness, I used to hate Kurt Warner basically because of stories like this. Not because of his actions, but because the press felt the need to basically put him up there with Jesus--and lord knows Kurt Warner talks about Jesus enough for us all six times over.

But the truth is, the guy's a really good guy and overly religious or not (that being a subjective judgment) his head seems in the right place. I was rooting for him last night too beyond the money.

Funny thing is, I'm sort of empty on this one, too, for two reasons.

The first is, I don't think I was ever going to be truly fulfilled based on the matchup. For me this was very much like a fantasy matchup, 'what if Arizona played Pittsburgh, with all those old Steeler coaches and a team that can spread the field against that secondary? Well, that would be pretty interesting, I'd watch that.'

It never felt like a Super Bowl. Even afterward I thought, what a great regular season game that would have been, but sadly neither of these teams struck me as truly great. Don't get me wrong, the Steelers deserve that ring, they beat everybody in front of them and you can't fault a team for their playoff schedule, but I just looked at those two teams and thought, 'engh, they're good, but they're not great.'

The other reason I feel a little empty, honestly, is that I thought the game was over-officiated. In retrospect I can see why, at least a little, obviously Arizona lost their composure in the bigness of the moment more than once, but there were just so many flags. Especially late when they actually started to play it was like the refs were lulled to sleep by that first half and suddenly couldn't keep up.

Again, Pittsburgh won, they should have won, but the refs denied football fans a couple of things at the end of that game which would have made the finish incredible--even after that huge catch in the endzone. Holmes used the ball as a prop post-TD (a horribly stupid rule, to be sure), if they call that suddenly AZ starts with dramatically better field position and two TOs. Then that final fumble looked a lot like a failed forward pass, combine that with the 15 yard taking your helmet off penalty (another pretty stupid rule), and you have the final play of the SB being Kurt Warner to Larry Fitz from the 35, jump ball to win the whole thing. Just as a fan, I want to see that, especially after that huge drive from the Steelers.
 
The best thing about Arizona is they can really feel or say they got the most out of there talent when it counted most . They played with heart and dignity .

This is a really good point. I thought about this last night. It's really hard for Arizona to feel like they didn't show up on the big stage. They made some dumb plays at times, but overall they left it all out there like Dockett (I think) said, and it's tough to feel like they were robbed or jobbed or that they failed themselves.
 
It was a great game, well actually sloppy at times but the 4th quarter overshadowed anything bad.

I was very unimpressed by the lack of control by both teams though. All-pro players getting 15 yard penalties and so on. I understand its an emotional game but this is a once in a lifetime shot.

Now, I have liked the Steelers for most of my football life. Just been my second team so it was cool. Felt bad for the Arizona guys though. They desreved the win as well.

Personally, game worked out great. Had the Zona 2nd half plus Steelers ingame at 2 min warning so cleaned up pretty nice on it all in all.

Game could have been a dud if Pitt would have converted some chances but Zona hung tough and we had a unreal finish.
 
i love you guys, but why is it when the steelers win there are always arguements like they got lucky, the refs gave them the game, they really aren't that good, they had an easy playoff schedule, etc.... why all the excuses?

everyone always has these crazy reasons to try to explain how or why the steelers got the win, but is it really that hard to accept the fact that the steelers are a great team and proved they deserved to win?
 
I felt bad for Larry Fitzgerald and Warner. Warner could be 3-0 in superbowls, he lost 2 very close ones in the games.

The loss hurt me also cause I really felt Zona would beat them, as I thought there was no way Warner would be denied and Larry is unstoppable.

It was the Defense that fucked them up at the end of the game.

I think Cards got a little nervous, their D LINE would have to win the game, the secondary was not winning it, that is for sure.

The man is the smartest QB in the league at pre recognition, that last td to Fitz was a fucking beatuy pass, he made that look so easy and found the man to man matchup and put the ball to Fitz in stride.

I feel bad for the Zona offense, Larry Fitz did everything, BOLDIN also did everything to win.

I think this loss goes on the ZONA D-- they needed to send Wilson in for a sack late or rush 3 then, and play a proper zone--

One thing for sure is you to have to cover Holmes, you can leave WARD or Miller open, cause they wont run 40 yards after the catch--

I thought Dom Rodgers Cromartie choked at times and could not handle Holmes--

That was Zona superbowl to win, pitts was dead until ben started playing sandlot football.
The game was simple, either SACK BEN or LOSE-- ITs always been that way with them.
They could not sack BEN and the game was over.
 
mogo said:
i love you guys, but why is it when the steelers win there are always arguements like they got lucky, the refs gave them the game, they really aren't that good, they had an easy playoff schedule, etc.... why all the excuses?

everyone always has these crazy reasons to try to explain how or why the steelers got the win, but is it really that hard to accept the fact that the steelers are a great team and proved they deserved to win?
Click to expand...

The refs did not give them the game, it appeared that way until Cards got a lot of calls late including holding in endzone.

Part of my bet and all my posts was that Bruce Arians and Steelers win the close game and dont really blow out anyone--

Full credit to Steelers, they are the true champions here in tihs game, they made the plays when they needed to.

Odds were in Cards favor, one stop and you win, and steelers scored--

GOod teams make stops at end of game, championship teams score, Steelers scored, they were champions deserving--

THey won the close games, a sign of a championship team-

Cards had the shot but were not champions, champions make the plays-

If the situation was reversed I bet you Steelers would ahve stopped the Cards on thier last drive.
 
sammy - do you still believe BEN is an overrated QB even after watching the whole game, with that game winning drive and TD pass?
 
i would take BEN on my team because on game winning drives, he just says fuck the NFL, fuck play calling, fuck plays, jump on my back and we are winning.

IN terms of a drop back passer he is not the greatest.

If i was starting a team I think BEN has to be one of the top qb's to pick, because at 6'6 and 60 pounds, he is unsackable. they can win a superbowl because he just said fuck it we are winning and I am not getting sacked.

i saw it last night, Cards players were close to him, but they were not sacking him late, they wuold bounce off him, he wouldnt go down, he would not be denied. I knew pItts would score on that drive because Rothyberger would not go down.
 
mogo said:
i love you guys, but why is it when the steelers win there are always arguements like they got lucky, the refs gave them the game, they really aren't that good, they had an easy playoff schedule, etc.... why all the excuses?

everyone always has these crazy reasons to try to explain how or why the steelers got the win, but is it really that hard to accept the fact that the steelers are a great team and proved they deserved to win?
Click to expand...

Its not their fault...its because every 50/50 call and every play that could go either way and every bounce and all the toss up stuff that happens in games ALWAYS seems to go their way...whether or not thats accurate or not is another discussion...its just the neutral observers perspective
 
ya sure he is not the BEST drop back passer, but you do realize most of those throws on that last drive were just that - drop back throws from the pocket.... they looked like pretty darn good throws to me....
 
mogo said:
sammy - do you still believe BEN is an overrated QB even after watching the whole game, with that game winning drive and TD pass?
Click to expand...

Guys got the intangibles someone like McNabb doesnt have...he makes plays when it matters...gotta give him credit for that

but i feel like his best play is 'run around in the pocket for 10 seconds, stiff arm three d-lineman and throw a jump ball to the tight end'

its not pretty...but its effective
 
its just the neutral observers perspective

smoke - you really consider yourself that??? :36_11_6:
 
congrats Mogo...no way you can say BR is overrated now..would have been hard to even before the big game...but it's Sammy...so you know he'll be on the other side...he often is...it's his "way"...not a hack on Sammy by the way.
 
Ben is one of my favorite qb's--

He can throw the ugly ball, it aint pretty but he gets it done, he comes through in the clutch- he is better than both mannings without a doubt, mcnabb, favre--

Him and Warner are probably the 2 best QB's in the NFL--

Rivers IMO will be up there also cause he is a clutch player also---
 
THe game came down to this point--

STEELER football is 60 minutes LONG---

I felt bad, but then realized that Steelers perhaps, Holmes and BEn made amazing plays, I mean a throw in triple coverage thrown perfectly over everyone for the TD-

NO bullshit I think that the throw was the best throw in superbowl history by far, it was about 15 yards, there was 3 guys there, and he threw it with speed, not very high but high enough that cards players had no shot and Holmes kept his feet in like a ballerina.
That throw and catch was 10000 Times better than The montana to clark, or Manning to Tyree or manning to Burres TD pass--

That throw was an INT unless BEN threw it with the right amount of speed and height and placement--
No other QB prob makes that throw--

I know the Manning sisters would ahve thrown that ball out of bounds there.
 
is it really that hard to accept the fact that the steelers are a great team and proved they deserved to win?

I think very few people would say they didn't deserve to win. They did deserve to win. And they not only played a very hard schedule this year (one, however, that you have to admit was a bit balanced out by getting the Browns and Bengals twice), they played a difficult playoff schedule.

Though, as Smoke says, in both their last two SB runs they've been a fortunate team. Nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't mean they don't deserve the rings, but they got some good matchups and good breaks--but good teams make their own breaks as much as anything.

At least from my standpoint I'm not taking shots at the Steelers so much as I'm taking a shot at the whole league this year. I don't think there were any 'great' teams this season, I think there were some very good ones, Pittsburgh is one of them, and I absolutely think they deserve this title. And Ben deserves a ton of credit. Not just for the plays he made on that final drive, but all game long, especially after he played so poorly in their first SB. He won the game, AZ didn't lose it.

That said, I don't think this team will go down in history or anything like that. But I could be wrong.
 
Kurt Warner needs to buy me a house.

Fixed it for you.

Why? Why not, we're in a severe f**king recession for f**k's sake.

=)
 
steelers are not lucky or fortunate, you could say they were lucky with the refs making calls, but that was put to rest with the late zona calls, they evened it out on the suspicious calls, that holding call right there for the safety was enough to say this game was not bad reffing and fair--

Steelers were not lucky, Luck would have been if Warner steps back and falls down and trips over a hole in the field, or a warner throw hits a bird and is picked off-

LUCK is a factor that is out of the norm, the steelers make the plays on defense, it is not luck, Harrison made a great play, he made one of the best defensive plays ever-

It is what it is, unlucky would be something like Larry Fitz running to the end zone and blowing his achilles tendon out, those things are lucky---

Steelers never got lucky, they made the plays on defense, there is nothing lucky about that--

THey were on the side of some good calls by refs and challenges, but bottom line when it mattered the refs gave ZONA the chance to win fair and square, and they had the lead but could not hold them-

So credit to the Steelers, I watched them play and they are far from lucky---

In fact if they had a good offensive coordinator they would win games much easier-they need to fire arians, he sucks-
 
For the record Rodgers Cromartie lost this superbowl, he was close to HOLMES but IMO choked, he was from a small school, he couldnt handle the pressure, the throws were nothign special on last drive, he was close and made no plays at all--

he made no plays on about 5 different throws to Holmes, he could have made a play and won it-

Even on the play that the safety was called, Rodgers cromarties got burned again- He made no plays, that was an INT if he was paying attention, he could have done it, but he pretty much choked.
 
I'll remember two plays as it relates to the QB's:

1) When Big Ben lowered his head at the goal line and moved a defensive lineman 2 yards to the endzone.. No other QB makes that play (or even tries)

2) And As Sammy stated above the recognition and delivery by Warner on the Long TD to Fitz. He is the best at that.. Maybe Peyton does that as well but no other QB in that situation makes that instant decision.. Watch it again.. Pitt switched off defenses right at the last second and Warner picked it up immeniately... I love guys that can do that because there are so few who do..

Both are great QB's, but very different...
 
Manning in my eyes would not be able to beat Pitts, they would both get rattled by the pass rush IMO--

Warner is calm and cool, he battles and makes those throws, Peyton IMo is a practice player, everything he does in practice he expects in a game, it has to be exactly like it was in practice--

hence you dont see Peyton throwing bad balls in games, because he throws it like it was in practice-

Manning's inability to win big games is because he cant adapt to defenses, he cannot make throws vs pressure and when it is not drawn exactly like it was in practice--

manning is a practice QB
 
Sammy Meatballs said:
Manning in my eyes would not be able to beat Pitts, they would both get rattled by the pass rush IMO--

Warner is calm and cool, he battles and makes those throws, Peyton IMo is a practice player, everything he does in practice he expects in a game, it has to be exactly like it was in practice--

hence you dont see Peyton throwing bad balls in games, because he throws it like it was in practice-

Manning's inability to win big games is because he cant adapt to defenses, he cannot make throws vs pressure and when it is not drawn exactly like it was in practice--

manning is a practice QB
Click to expand...
Manning beat Pitt in Pitt this year.
 
the recognition and delivery by Warner on the Long TD to Fitz.

This was both Warner and Haley being at the top of their game. That play was the one either Arrington or Breston hit on earlier, but couldn't take it to the house. They came back to it with a guy who could and it worked perfectly.

What was surprising to me was that Haley seemed to refuse to use motion to create mismatches for Fitz all game. This seemed natural to me, but maybe it goes against their scheme or something. Either way, not doing it let them sort of lock-down Fitz almost all game.

Tee hit it early on, AZ needed to spread the field. It's also interesting to note that the Gators were brought up last night because you could see the vast difference between coaching styles. Wiz is born from that Pittsburgh mind-set where you really want to run to set up the pass. And yet this game begged him, BEGGED him to spread the field and say 'f**k it,' we're throwing the rock around. Only when it got sort of desperate did he do that. Had he committed to it all game I think we would have seen a far different contest.

I also think Pittsburgh still might have won, but I think it would have been a 38-34 type of game which Arizona could have had a chance to control at times. Playing the way Wiz did, unless things went really right really early, there was going to be that likelihood of the Cardinals needing to grind with the Steelers who are far better at it than anybody. They also would have become one-dimensional by necessity rather than by choice.

Good thing he adjusted at least when he did. Otherwise it would have been like watching Andy Reid out there with half the country banging their head against a wall because the team down 14 refused to change its style even a little bit.

Point being, Urban Meyer has proven that he can look at an opponent in a big game and go balls to the wall one way or another if he thinks that's the way to win. In the NFL coaches are just far more reluctant to change like that.
 
for sure WHIZ lost this game by not throwing enough early---

He had to be ready to pass more, and get the ball to Fitz
 
I still don't think AZ so much lost the game as Pittsburgh won it. A couple of things were interesting and we should have seen them coming (or at least you say that in hindsight).

That the Cardinals couldn't stay composed is something we should have figured on. They'd had a grand total of like five people with SB experience. We should have figured them for more penalties and for occasionally being out of position or overcome by the moment--it's actually a testament to their staff that they regrouped as well as they did and finished as strong as they did.

Basically we just should have seen more mistakes from them than I think we were all willing to cap/assume.

We also should have seen that Willie Parker wasn't going to get 100 yards. Some did, I'm sure, but not enough of us and why, especially based on his last SB performance, we didn't think that the Cardinals would focus on stopping the run and making Ben go on long drives to beat them was a bit of a mistake.

Last, on the officiating, I'm someone who stuck up for Pittsburgh in the Seattle SB and still do as most of those calls were right (yes, including the PI one early on). But in that SB at least the conspiracy angle made sense. It was the Steelers first trip in forever, they were playing in Detroit which could basically be like a home game for them, 'one for the thumb,' 'one for the Bus'--who was retiring and from Detroit. It all added up.

Here, however, there was no reason to shade toward that side even if they wanted to. Because it was against Arizona, I'm sorry to say this Steeler fans, but nobody really cared if you won--mostly because nobody really expected you to lose. So there was no incentive to push Pittsburgh despite the fact that the league does like to have/feature dominant teams.

The officiating, in my opinion, though at times it looked horrific through the glasses of your (or my) wager, was simply average to sub-par, and basically cut both ways on that. It happens and it took a lot of rhythm out of the game, but didn't cost either team the game one way or another.
 
I am with you Tee, I have been a fan of Warner since his StLouis days. I really never liked Bidwell and the StLouis Cardinal football team although I am an avid StLouis Cardinal baseball fan. We do have to look at it like this, They played one hell of a game and if anyone said Zona would be in the super bowl and give Pitt a battle, back in week 12 we would have called them fucking crazy. He has been to three and does have a ring...not too bad for someone who almost missed his chance!
 
Joe P-- we are seeing it exactly the same... Told my son, once Cardinals got down two scores... "Now they will play the way they should have played the whole game".... They did and took the lead rather routinely....I understand the concept of "managing the game"... But to me, Ariz had nothing to lose so why not fuck with the establishment and protocol.. Spread the fucking field from the get go, go no huddle, get Warner in his attack mode...

Prediction--- Warner signs two year contract with Vikings and wins the super Bowl at least once... Vikings defense and peterson, berriman.. Add Warner and another stud receiver (let Warner choose him).. That veteran offensive line... Marlo and Vikingguy would have a lot of fun with that team.
 
Yeah, Tee, you and I've been on the same page about this game for about a week and a half now.

It's so funny how reluctant NFL HC's are to change. I suppose that's part of the ego/arrogance that you need to hold that position in the first place, but if I'm not mistaken, the last time these two teams played, basically the same scenario played out. Leinart started, they got down, then Warner came in they spread the field, scored a bunch late and won.

I suppose we'll never know what would have happened had they committed to that early--of course, no way you can ever 'cap or coach for a 100 INT TD return on the last play before halftime.

But, in fairness to AZ, until they held for that FG I was saying they were done based on that third quarter. So they proved me wrong, in a good way.

I like your prediction, but I think it's just a touch off. I do think he gets a two year deal, but I think he gets it from AZ. In part because a two year deal will end just as the new CBA should be kicking in.

But Minny would be perfect for him. I don't think he'd think that, simply because he doesn't want to be a QB who hands the ball off all the time which is kind of what he'd be. Although, he may want to go back to a dome. But I think if there's any kind of bidding war, even the hint of one, AZ drops out of it.

I'd actually like to see them sign Warner and trade Matt Leinart. If they could get a first round pick, and you might be able to based on the fact that you could start him immediately, it would be really interesting. I highly doubt they'd do it--even though it might be beneficial for both parties--but I think it'd be fun to be an objective observer of how that would workout. (Though I suppose that's not a really good reason for teams to make trades.)

=)
 
Joe Public said:
Again, Pittsburgh won, they should have won, but the refs denied football fans a couple of things at the end of that game which would have made the finish incredible--even after that huge catch in the endzone. Holmes used the ball as a prop post-TD (a horribly stupid rule, to be sure), if they call that suddenly AZ starts with dramatically better field position and two TOs. Then that final fumble looked a lot like a failed forward pass, combine that with the 15 yard taking your helmet off penalty (another pretty stupid rule), and you have the final play of the SB being Kurt Warner to Larry Fitz from the 35, jump ball to win the whole thing. Just as a fan, I want to see that, especially after that huge drive from the Steelers.
Click to expand...

Well said Joe.
 
There are a couple of things that bother me about the NFL, nothing to keep it from being my favorite sport of the day, but that bug me nonetheless. One of which is when they do what they did last night.

After enough people on TV brought up the fact that they obviously didn't review that pass/fumble at the end of the game, they released a statement saying that 'oh, yes, we did look at that in the booth.'

No, you didn't. And we all know you didn't.

And yet, after the fact there they are trying to cover their ass. Again.

The truth is, they didn't look at it. At least, not seriously. Why not just say that. Just say the official made the right call and say it's obviously a fumble. If they blew it, which I think they did simply by not taking the time to really give it a thorough look, just stand behind the decision made. Don't try, after the fact, to say you did the due diligence when you obviously didn't.

It's that whole 'nothing to see here, please move along' thing the NFL does--and they do it enough that it's really bothersome.
 
Joe Public said:
There are a couple of things that bother me about the NFL, nothing to keep it from being my favorite sport of the day, but that bug me nonetheless. One of which is when they do what they did last night.

After enough people on TV brought up the fact that they obviously didn't review that pass/fumble at the end of the game, they released a statement saying that 'oh, yes, we did look at that in the booth.'

No, you didn't. And we all know you didn't.

And yet, after the fact there they are trying to cover their ass. Again.

The truth is, they didn't look at it. At least, not seriously. Why not just say that. Just say the official made the right call and say it's obviously a fumble. If they blew it, which I think they did simply by not taking the time to really give it a thorough look, just stand behind the decision made. Don't try, after the fact, to say you did the due diligence when you obviously didn't.

It's that whole 'nothing to see here, please move along' thing the NFL does--and they do it enough that it's really bothersome.
Click to expand...


The NFL has been doing this stuff for years. Are we going to believe that if that was the steelers fumbling the ball there and losing, that they would of not taken a proper look at it.

Until they hire some young guys to ref , your going to get the same baloney. It will be interesting to see who replaces Pereria. I guess at the age of 60 , even himself has heard enough for being such a cushy job.
 
i dunno if you caught it, but Al Michaels put the spin on it almost immediately in the booth

something like 'we're being told they looked at it and it didnt need to be reviewed'

complete bullshit
 
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