Soccer Newbie Thread

twinkie13

twinkie13

In transit, arriving late.
so i know how many men are allowed and now i know how many can make the trip (thanks teed)

what i don't get is that, they barely make subs....when they do it is always late. I get it, mofos are tired.

THEN I see a lineup change for the next game....we moved vagenkamp(sorry, joke) and kuuuup is now here


i get it i guess, BUT

What I do not get is this: IF the lineup is so pure from the jump and subs rarely happen(i am comparing to baskets...again, i know soccer boys run and run and run)....why so many changes, outside cards?

also, the 4-5-2 and such changes

i want to get it, and i know i am missing something......but the subs just never make sense to me...never did in the WC in 1996 and do not now

tia
 
3 subs a game

normally a team will use one around the 60-65th minute in general, and then 1 or 2 past 80

the fitness difference is the big thing, these guys are running like 8-9 miles a game total

the second question seems sort of to formations? different styles of play really, sometimes a sub is like for like, otherwise you sub off a player to bring on another one and completely change the way you play

or even game to game, like the US for example played a 4-3-3 on saturday with 2 guys out wide and attacked

against the argies they are likely going to pack the midfield a bit more and play more narrow while sitting back
 
Twink, I'm glad you started this thread...I'm a guy who admittedly never gave a damn about soccer until the last year when I realized how many amazing opportunities there are to make money on it. I've watched more soccer in the last 6 months than I have in the almost 40 other years I've been on this Earth...definitely have a new appreciation for the game.

You soccer guys, feel free to jump in, because I'm admittedly a noob at trying to understand the nuances of the sport...but here are a few things I'm interested in learning more about for my own knowledge...

Offsides...I can never fucking tell when a play is offsides or not...is it based on zones/distance a player is to the goal vs. where the ball is?

Refs...some of these guys call fouls on everything and others (so it appears to me) really let them play...kind of like in the NBA...do you get to know who the refs are before these games and are there stats on them? Seems this could only be helpful from a betting perspective.

What are the main formations that most teams are playing and what are their advantages? 4-5-2, etc.

As a guy who gets into pucks and appreciates the pure skill those dudes have, I definitely see the same comparison on the pitch, except those mofos run and run and then fucking run some more. So are there stats that are out there evaluating team conditioning?

Maybe some of these questions are stupid to guys who know the sport well, but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask the many members who do appreciate and love the sport...
 
Twink...gonna change the thread title cause I think we're kind of in the same boat as far as soccer and our understanding goes.
 
Scarf
Offside is simple,when an attacking player has no defenders closer to the goal than himself,he is offside.imagine a line across the field from the last defender,any player from the attacking team beyond that line is offside,now hes only offside when initial contact with the pass/through ball is made AND he has to be involved in the play(it wasnt always this way,but it was a great rule change),you can be stood in an offside position but not interferring with play,thus *shouldnt* be given offside.

Refs,yes,much like NBA,they have tendencies,some are much quicker to penalise than others,some show yellow cards quicker,some are more lenient.
All this is available online but after a while you get to know the refs.
 
Thing that sucks is when a guy's pinky is the only thing offside, he's still offside. Although they tend to have a gray area at times, usually to kill one of my wagers
 
Here is a question
whast the deal for goalies?
sometimes the keeper will not pick up the ball and just use his feet. Are there rules regarding this?
 
dudleysdad said:
Here is a question
whast the deal for goalies?
sometimes the keeper will not pick up the ball and just use his feet. Are there rules regarding this?
Click to expand...

Dud, that's another thing I notice too...maybe I'm a simpleton, but I don't get it. Only one fucking guy can use his hands and I watch some games and the goalie almost looks like he doesn't want to use his hands...seems stupid to me. If he has shitty hands, shouldn't he not be a goalie in the first place?!?
 
scarf31 said:
Dud, that's another thing I notice too...maybe I'm a simpleton, but I don't get it. Only one fucking guy can use his hands and I watch some games and the goalie almost looks like he doesn't want to use his hands...seems stupid to me. If he has shitty hands, shouldn't he not be a goalie in the first place?!?
Click to expand...

Yeah I would grab it every time.
sometimes u see players flying at the goalie and he takes a boot to it..
 
Your own guy can't kick it back to you, that's the biggest, must use the feet in that case
 
Why is the final touch always the most inaccurate? Perfect passing and build up but then the final shot on goal is just a disgrace so often. Is it because of the velocity they are kicking it at when attempting to score?
 
It depends on the league in terms of formation, and it depends on the players you have.

Barcelona uses a 4-3-3 line up

which is 4 defenders, 3 midfielders, a winger on each side and a striker in the front.

The most generic and likely most used formation (though im not sure) is the 4-4-2

4 defenders, 4 mid's and 2 strikers up front

sometimes these mids can be attacking mids or something they can be defensive mids
 
clowncar said:
Why is the final touch always the most inaccurate? Perfect passing and build up but then the final shot on goal is just a disgrace so often. Is it because of the velocity they are kicking it at when attempting to score?
Click to expand...
It is so annoying how bad the guys miss shots
 
dudleysdad said:
What if someone sends it back to the goalie off their nuts?
Click to expand...

LOL I don't know that I get it 100% either but think for the most part I understand. Nuts prolly like chest or whatever, think that still ok.

Don't think you can pick it up and wing a 90mph fastball back there tho
 
clowncar said:
Why is the final touch always the most inaccurate? Perfect passing and build up but then the final shot on goal is just a disgrace so often. Is it because of the velocity they are kicking it at when attempting to score?
Click to expand...

Would be great if they let you keep it and you were a souvenir seeker in row X at times
 
As Man UK explained the last defender is the offsides line. If a player passes the ball to a player behind the last defender, he is offsides. If a player passes the ball to a player that is initially in front of the defender, and the player that the ball is getting passed runs past the last defender, he is not offsides. I also remember there was some confusion on another offsides rule. If a player who is not offsides gets passed the ball, it does not matter if there is another player is offsides. Also offsides is not enforced on throws in, but is enforced on free kicks or corner kicks.

Another point of confusion is that for a ball to be out of bounds, the ball needs to be 100% out. Same thing with goal, like hockey.

145800.jpg
 
clowncar said:
Why is the final touch always the most inaccurate? Perfect passing and build up but then the final shot on goal is just a disgrace so often. Is it because of the velocity they are kicking it at when attempting to score?
Click to expand...

these balls are tough sometimes to kick with how they are made. I just saw a highlight today where the player was no more then 10 yards out and he missed the goal by half a mile. It happens to the best players in the world.
 
damn gruv now you've already taken this to the difference between attacking and defensive mids on the first day of the thread
 
~1987 said:
these balls are tough sometimes to kick with how they are made. I just saw a highlight today where the player was no more then 10 yards out and he missed the goal by half a mile. It happens to the best players in the world.
Click to expand...

Ibra doesn't do that shit
 
twinkie13 said:
so i know how many men are allowed and now i know how many can make the trip (thanks teed)

what i don't get is that, they barely make subs....when they do it is always late. I get it, mofos are tired.

THEN I see a lineup change for the next game....we moved vagenkamp(sorry, joke) and kuuuup is now here


i get it i guess, BUT

What I do not get is this: IF the lineup is so pure from the jump and subs rarely happen(i am comparing to baskets...again, i know soccer boys run and run and run)....why so many changes, outside cards?

also, the 4-5-2 and such changes

i want to get it, and i know i am missing something......but the subs just never make sense to me...never did in the WC in 1996 and do not now

tia
Click to expand...

Sometimes subs are situational. If you see the game running a certain way, you think a player might be more suited than the other player that is getting subbed off. Sometimes you need more offensive players, sometimes you need more defensive players. Sometimes, just as in just about any other sport, lineups change because of the matchups. Sometimes players are ice cold, and other players are on fire. As VK mentioned, sometimes subs are used to kill the clock. Lastly sometimes in the midst of a regular season, players are just tired and need a game off.
 
But I sometimes wonder why some of these cats aren't just collecting a check kicking in the NFL and beaching it most of the year
 
dudleysdad said:
Here is a question
whast the deal for goalies?
sometimes the keeper will not pick up the ball and just use his feet. Are there rules regarding this?
Click to expand...

scarf31 said:
Dud, that's another thing I notice too...maybe I'm a simpleton, but I don't get it. Only one fucking guy can use his hands and I watch some games and the goalie almost looks like he doesn't want to use his hands...seems stupid to me. If he has shitty hands, shouldn't he not be a goalie in the first place?!?
Click to expand...

cant pick up the ball if its passed back to the goalie with feet

if its headed back to the goalie he can pick it up
 
What about cards? Does the ref follow certain rules when issuing yellow or red cards? Or does it depend more on that particular ref? Or both? I sometimes see a ref far away from the play come in and issue a card. Just curious what they are looking for when issuing a card. Kinda seems arbitrary to me.
 
SIGO said:
What about cards? Does the ref follow certain rules when issuing yellow or red cards? Or does it depend more on that particular ref? Or both? I sometimes see a ref far away from the play come in and issue a card. Just curious what they are looking for when issuing a card. Kinda seems arbitrary to me.
Click to expand...

usually something completely reckless can lead to a red. When I say reckless I mean like potential to snap someone's leg or shatter a knee cap. Cleats up slides into the legs usually lead to reads. Also fouls that lead to clear goal scoring chances are usually reds. Yellows are just an accumulation of fouls or something a bit too hard. There are guidelines but It's really up to the ref
 
Yeah, cards are basically a matter of severity and how dangerous/reckless/intentional what you just did is.

To go to a straight red card before giving a yellow card happens, but it's rare, because it's basically like saying, "What you just did was so fucked up, I'm not going to give you a yellow, I'm giving you two yellows, now GTFO."

Generally you're calling for a card on hard tackles, particularly from behind, where it basically looks like going after the ball is secondary. Also there's the yellow you take when somebody has beaten you, and you just grab them and stop them. Better to give them a free kick and take your card than give them a breakaway.
 
Newbie question,
why would USA fans actually think they could play with Argentina?
 
Thanx for this thread guys. I thought I was the only dude who was never into soccer. I'm new to soccer, 1 of the only sports besides hockey that I've never followed but recently been watching the copa america my friend got me into and learned a lot today from watching usa vs aregentina asking my friend questions and also from reading this thread. any questions I come upon in tomarrows game i will be back to ask you guys. Always great discussion here. :shake:
 
dudleysdad said:
Newbie question,
why would USA fans actually think they could play with Argentina?
Click to expand...

In one game everything is possible. But yes it appears some US fans were not quite aware of the talent disparity between USA and a top 3 team in the world. 3 out of 4 US commentators picked the USA to win before the game, so it's not only the fans but also the supposed experts who were delusional.
 
gunner4ever said:
In one game everything is possible. But yes it appears some US fans were not quite aware of the talent disparity between USA and a top 3 team in the world. 3 out of 4 US commentators picked the USA to win before the game, so it's not only the fans but also the supposed experts who were delusional.
Click to expand...

Honestly , I feel like most people thought we would get blown out. Most "casual" fans I talked to thought we would lose like the score line we saw today.. I had no illusions , I thought we would lose, but I thought it would be a more flattering score line , thought we would be more organized defensively, basically just more organized . .. Man I would high press the shit out of the USA if I was playing them( take my chances that they can't punish you. Costa Rica kinda did that almost paid off for them very early on). Big talent gap obviously, but there are ways to play and set up to level the playing field( see Costa Rica 2014 World Cup )
 
braves said:
Honestly , I feel like most people thought we would get blown out. Most "casual" fans I talked to thought we would lose like the score line we saw today.. I had no illusions , I thought we would lose, but I thought it would be a more flattering score line , thought we would be more organized defensively, basically just more organized . .. Man I would high press the shit out of the USA if I was playing them( take my chances that they can't punish you. Costa Rica kinda did that almost paid off for them very early on). Big talent gap obviously, but there are ways to play and set up to level the playing field( see Costa Rica 2014 World Cup )
Click to expand...

The line at -208 was a joke. That's what it opened at. I wish I had money sitting around. That was a fly to Vegas bet.
i said it should have opened at -500 I was wrong it should have opened at -900.

pop 25k on that and come home after partying n flights with 10k
 
dudleysdad said:
The line at -208 was a joke. That's what it opened at. I wish I had money sitting around. That was a fly to Vegas bet.
i said it should have opened at -500 I was wrong it should have opened at -900.

pop 25k on that and come home after partying n flights with 10k
Click to expand...

you know it would have ended 0-0 if you had done that, lol, but yeah in hindsight that was easy money
 
braves said:
you know it would have ended 0-0 if you had done that, lol, but yeah in hindsight that was easy money
Click to expand...
Well it might have been cuz I didn't have USA homer goggles on and just not a soccer lover. Common sense told me messi n his boys vs. USA without a few guys? Joke, easy
wont see many easier money making opportunities like that
superior team, weak line
that was like saying New England pats -208 ML vs Texas tech in fb
 
dudleysdad said:
Well it might have been cuz I didn't have USA homer goggles on and just not a soccer lover. Common sense told me messi n his boys vs. USA without a few guys? Joke, easy
wont see many easier money making opportunities like that
superior team, weak line
that was like saying New England pats -208 ML vs Texas tech in fb
Click to expand...

Aha well let's not exaggerate! Sure it was a complete beat down today, but if the US didn't concede so early and kept the 0-0 a while longer maybe until half time then who knows what could have happened in a close game.
 
braves said:
Honestly , I feel like most people thought we would get blown out. Most "casual" fans I talked to thought we would lose like the score line we saw today.. I had no illusions , I thought we would lose, but I thought it would be a more flattering score line , thought we would be more organized defensively, basically just more organized . .. Man I would high press the shit out of the USA if I was playing them( take my chances that they can't punish you. Costa Rica kinda did that almost paid off for them very early on). Big talent gap obviously, but there are ways to play and set up to level the playing field( see Costa Rica 2014 World Cup )
Click to expand...

Yes it was probably the effect of reading twitter before the game and listening to Alexi Lalas...! It's good that futbol gets more and more popular and appreciated in the US
 
gunner4ever said:
Aha well let's not exaggerate! Sure it was a complete beat down today, but if the US didn't concede so early and kept the 0-0 a while longer maybe until half time then who knows what could have happened in a close game.
Click to expand...

No b/c many inferior teams park the bus but still allow goals to go by when playing against guys too talented.
 
Plenty of upsets or draws when inferior teams park the bus or just play counter attack against superior teams, but in this case I agree with you Argentina was an easy play but it doesn't mean it's always winning is all I'm saying, at the Euros lots of smaller teams prove this year they can hang on and resist against the bigger nations so far
 
dudleysdad said:
Well it might have been cuz I didn't have USA homer goggles on and just not a soccer lover. Common sense told me messi n his boys vs. USA without a few guys? Joke, easy
wont see many easier money making opportunities like that
superior team, weak line
that was like saying New England pats -208 ML vs Texas tech in fb
Click to expand...
see you don't even have to know the sport or even like it, your eyes told you the line was a joke, and you won. Nice work
 
dudleysdad said:
No b/c many inferior teams park the bus but still allow goals to go by when playing against guys too talented.
Click to expand...
You will go skint,quickly,thinking its always going to pan out like last night did.As has been pointed out,the early goal was key.
You were absolutely spot on with your assessment pre game,but FOOTBALL is a sport more than any other,where you dont always get what you deserve.Sometimes even the greatest teams cannot break teams down who put 11 behind the ball.Youve seen it this European Championship,it,unfortunately,doesnt always work out so easily.
 
Germany beat N Ireland 1-0 yesterday despite something like a 20-2 shot disparity. I imagine the talent gap between Germany and NI is similar to US and Arg. Maybe wider. Germany had several good chances that simply didn't go in, and the NI keeper played awesome. Sometimes it just doesn't work out like you think. Kind of like US vs Belgium in 2014 WC. No way that game should have gone to extra time, but Tim Howard played possessed and set a record for saves in a WC game
 
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