So, nobody likes Arizona, eh?

Joe Public

Gabibbo's Finest
Well, that's interesting.

So interesting, in fact, I think I might just ramble on about this game for a bit if you don't mind.

First, though, let's take a trip back to the NFC Championship Game much as it will hurt me to do.

I wasn't around for this game, I actually watched it at what was mostly a Giants bar of all places. Joe then proceeded to take an alcohol-induced header into an NYC sidewalk after far too many shots of God knows what were purchased for me by people I'll never see again.

Ah, good times.

At any rate, there are a couple of very pertinent things to take from that game going into this one.

First, this was almost exactly the game the Eagles have played for two straight playoff games. They let their opponent move the ball too easily in the first half, then the Birds clamped down in the second. The problem in this game that they didn't have to deal with in the first two was that this time their opponent scored TDs, not FGs. Had they been able to keep that score to 17-6 or even 20-6 at half, the second half shapes up very differently.

Oh, and nice blown call early. Didn't lose 'em the game, but seriously, get it right.

The second thing that was very important about that game vs. this is how Philly wasn't really able to generate much pressure until the second half. As we talked about before the game, if Kurt Warner doesn't get touched, you're in for a long day.

So now going into this game the question is this. Will this be Neil O'Donnell vs. the Cowboys or will this be Kurt Warner vs. the Titans. Which one are we going to get.

Personally, I think we're going to get the latter and here's why.

The Eagles were, I think, the best secondary matchup defensively you could ask for against the Cardinals. There really wasn't a WR or TE that they didn't have a SU answer for. Still, all throughout the first half Haley found ways to get Fitz and the rest of that offense in space and it just ate the Eagles' strong suit for breakfast.

But in this game, the Steelers secondary isn't as individually talented as the Eagles. So now you have to have help. Problem is, schematically, that leaves holes all over the place based on the defense the Steelers play.

The defense you want to line up against Kurt Warner is the Cover Two, preferably the way Tampa plays it, disguising blitzes to make sure you still hit Warner while dropping people into coverage zones making Warner hold onto the ball and baiting him to fitting it into windows which may or may not actually be there. But what Pittsburgh plays is the 3-4. This means even if you disguise the blitzes (which they'll surely do) you are still only initially starting with three on the line so Arizona will assume at least two additional are coming every down and you're almost certainly only dropping one back to help--all Warner really has to do is find the single coverage.

Which is harder than I make it seem, obviously, but if you look at Pittsburgh's stats their sacks come from Woodley and Harrison--both LBs--if they have to send those guys to generate pressure, their speed is taken away from the space over the middle and put into the backfield. To me this hurts Pittsburgh in this matchup because, one, Kurt Warner isn't about breaking contain and getting wide, it's about being in the pocket and two, Kurt Warner (when he actually does get rid of the ball) has a really quick release. In essence, I look for Warner to have success over the middle for much of the day.

I also see screens working well and as AZ proved last week, they've got the team to run 'em.

If Pittsburgh were playing Philly and McNabb, I think they'd be happier with this 3-4 matchup because that speed advantage they have in their LBs might keep McNabb contained. Here I don't see that mattering as much because what the Cardinals are going to do is spread the field and have Kurt Warner snap and throw.

This leads me to the other problem with this matchup for Pittsburgh. If you watch the AFC North, which I'm sure you all do on a weekly basis because you're all such avid Browns fans (bless your cotton socks), you know that the way you beat the LeBeau Steelers is to throw the football. It's been like this for years and this year is no different.

You spread 'em out and you throw the ball--which just so happens to be the strength of the Cardinals.

I actually don't think Arizona is that great of a team, but I really like this matchup for them. The one big hole in them winning is Kurt Warner. If Pittsburgh hits him early and often, he could easily degenerate into what Jake Delhome became vs. AZ a few weeks ago.

However, I think one of the huge things AZ has going for them here is Wiz's familiarity with Pittsburgh and, more importantly, Big Ben.

Don't forget, Ben had perhaps the worst QB performance of any SB winning QB ever in that game a few years ago. Now he gets to get all geeked up for some redemption. Which just plays into Wiz's hands.

Truthfully, the only reason this game doesn't set up like TB vs. Oakland for me is that I only trust Kurt Warner so much.

But I think their coaching familiarity with the Steelers' offense, which doesn't scare me as much as it has in the past, combined with their ability to spread the field, gives them the advantage in this game.

I haven't decided exactly how to play it yet, but I'll add my plays here when I have them.

Last, a note about the line. The SB line is the single easiest line to set in all of sports because it almost never has anything to do with the game. It's based on a key number to make it easier for squares to bet it and, given that, plus the natural public lean toward a traditional public team like Pittsburgh there was no way to hang -3. Oddly enough, were this game in Pittsburgh, -9/-10 wouldn't be out of the question, nor would Pitt -3/-4 in AZ. So, strangely, I actually think this line was set right (unlike many SB lines). But I think there's a ton of room in it and the only way Pittsburgh covers is if they turn Warner over three or more times.


I think the first thing I'll play is this AZ TT over 20, sadly the price sucks, but I think they can push it at worst, more to follow. Good luck this weekend everybody.

**update - Steed has offered to toss the salad of anyone who actually reads this whole thing. A very generous offer: CTG, where the giving never stops. **
 
Every site I've gone to has AZ as a "public" favorite, FWIW, and half the forum is on AZ.

Not sure where you're coming up with no one like AZ. I love Pitt in this spot though, so you're prob safe with AZ, LOL....
 
Every site I've gone to has AZ as a "public" favorite, FWIW, and half the forum is on AZ.

Really. I must be missing it. It seems like everybody I read seems to be liking the Steelers, how they're going to roll, etc.

It does seem as though the money's now coming in a bit on AZ as the price is reflecting that, but I think we all know a lot of Pittsburgh money will start coming in come the weekend.
 
All that said, a shocking lack of interest in this game going on right now. Though that's what we get for Philly losing, I suppose.
 
All that said, a shocking lack of interest in this game going on right now. Though that's what we get for Philly losing, I suppose.
I'm not feeling it Joe. Maybe it's me but this doesn't even feel like a Super Bowl to me and I'm only 45 minutes away from all the action. It's just weird. I'll throw my normal chunk of money at it but I'm not excited at all. *shrugs*

Oh yeah....Free sent me this today....LOL
 
ol joe where have you been?

I was out of town for a week, then I got back only to get sick for like five days. Pthpt, winter.

I'm with Shark. I assumed it was because the Eagles lost and so I just wasn't really interested. But even ESPN seems like they're trying to manufacture interest, but that it's just not there, even for them--and faux excitement is what they live for.

Funny thing is, I actually think this game will be pretty good.
 
IMO Zona is better than pitts, i agree with everyone you said--

they will spread out pitts and attack them throwing--

if no ward this gets ugly for ZONA winning-- Ward if he is banged up, pitts will get blown out,
 
Ah sheet, I read the whole thing

Steed will call you promptly to schedule your rendez vous. Enjoy your precious moments.
 
Shark...I am glad you posted that McNabb joke....LOL I was crackin up....I knew you would like that one.....:smiley_acbe: As far as the S.B. I am torn on this game....I have 3 blocks going for me & I am thinking I will stay away from the bet & ride them out.....but a gun to my head.....I just can't see Ari. getting blown away....I feel like it will be a close game....I know too that good defenses win games so who knows....put the names in a hat...mix them up & pick one...:36_11_6:
 
I like AZ in this game. I think they have a good chance in winning the SB. No money on them yet. I am going to wait untill this weekend to make my bet.
 
interesting:

On ESPN.com's poll right now the question is who will win the Super Bowl

397,000 votes have been cast

51% Arizona
49% Pittsburgh
 
It's the Cinderella story taking hold of the public via the media. I wouldn't pay much attention Joe, bet who you like. I'm huge on Ariz if I can get 7' -120 or better. Ideally, I'd like to mix it with Pitt ML, but in order to get one wish, the other would have to disappear because I don't want Pitt ML unless it's -240 or less.
 
But in this game, the Steelers secondary isn't as individually talented as the Eagles. So now you have to have help. Problem is, schematically, that leaves holes all over the place based on the defense the Steelers play.

The defense you want to line up against Kurt Warner is the Cover Two, preferably the way Tampa plays it, disguising blitzes to make sure you still hit Warner while dropping people into coverage zones making Warner hold onto the ball and baiting him to fitting it into windows which may or may not actually be there. But what Pittsburgh plays is the 3-4. This means even if you disguise the blitzes (which they'll surely do) you are still only initially starting with three on the line so Arizona will assume at least two additional are coming every down and you're almost certainly only dropping one back to help--all Warner really has to do is find the single coverage.


This is the part of the analysis I have a hard time with; Joep, are you suggesting that you can't play Cover 2 in the back out of a 3-4 alignment? If so, you are in error. You can still rush 4 and drop back into a 2-deep coverage. The Steelers don't appear to have as good of a secondary as the Eagles due mostly to scheme...the Eagles primarily play the pass, while the Steelers focus on stopping the run more. Fact is, Steelers front 7 is vastly superior to the Eagles front 7 and I see the Steelers putting more pressure on Warner with just 4 rushers than the Eagles did with their myriad of blitzes. Steelers will render Bird run game useless with just their front 7 and will be able to sit back in a 2-deep the entire game if they so choose.
 
I don't like that you're on Pittsburgh, Horses. Nor do I like that a number of people now seem to be on AZ.

I agree with you completely that Pittsburgh's front seven is better than Philly's. However, if you look at the way they scheme, they don't really generate their pressure from the front three/the middle of that 3-4. They clog the middle then get you from the outside with their LBs. That's great against a guy you want to keep in the pocket, Donovan McNabb, Brady Quinn--you know, the two most mobile QBs in the league. But with a Kurt Warner it doesn't help all that much because he's not looking to get outside of the pocket.

If you, as the Cardinals, can shade that rush to the outside, which is where it's coming from to begin with, you can create a nice pocket for Warner to throw from and because you've got enough good WRs you're gonna get these guys either in space, one on one, or both.

I agree you can drop guys back, and I'm sure they will show blitzes and do just that, but again, Pittsburgh's front three need help to get home, they've proven it all year. So they're going to have to send these LBs for pressure more than drop them, I think.

The game, for me, all comes back to Kurt Warner. If he plays well they can, and maybe should win, if he doesn't Pittsburgh should cover.

And for the record, I say 'maybe should win' only because Pittsburgh isn't built as a quick score offense, one that can come from behind on you quickly. And if AZ can score consistently like they did against Philly it's going to be tough for Pitt to claw back solely on offense just based on the way they're built.

It's funny, because I never thought I'd like Arizona in this game, and almost any of the other NFC options I doubt I would have liked vs. Pitt, but I like the way this matchup lines up for AZ.
 
The game, for me, all comes back to Kurt Warner.

I think youre on the right track here, but i think it comes down to the Cardinals O-Line

And i think we're gonna know early...if warner gets sacked 2 or 3 times in the first quarter, its gonna be a looooong day...
 
And i think we're gonna know early...if warner gets sacked 2 or 3 times in the first quarter, its gonna be a looooong day...

Yeah, I may look at the over on sacks in this one, too. Hopefully it's not inflated simply because of Pitt. Because you're right, if they get to Kurt, you can load up on Pittsburgh at half.
 
it keeps goin up....

552,000 votes

53% Arizona
47% Pitt

I swear, if i hear one Steeler on Sunday play the 'no one gave us any respect' card im gonna throw up...
 
It's so weird to me. Who the hell are all these people?

I step back and just as a know-nothing fan I can't see why on earth they'd jump to the Cardinals. You're telling me the average fan has caught up to this team in two weeks? After laughing at them for well over two decades? I just have a lot of trouble believing that.
 
i dont get it at all

but i mean its getting to the point where its tough to argue the sample size

500k people is a lot of people
 
You're completely right. But what. the. f**k.

Like you said, this thing is almost certainly going to feel very much like a Steeler home game. ESPN continually mocks the fact that when they go to TB they can't seem to find an AZ fan. There was a poll on ESPN today which asked if the last two weeks have changed your mind as to who is going to win and only 11% said they'd flipped to the Cardinals.

Now that 'could' be enough to sway it, but it feels to me the coverage has been slanted toward Pittsburgh--and sort of rightfully so, they have more fans. But it's been all Tomlin and Ben with a little Kurt Warner thrown in on the other side.

It's confusing, but I don't like it. It's not going to change my play, but I don't like it.
 
i don't know about that joe, it has seemed to me that all espn has talked about is Fitz and Warner all week, maybe i am wrong, but from what i have seen , it certainly has seemed that way.
 
Good point, Mad, they have hyped Fitz a great deal. It just seems like there's all this Tomlin love goin' on. Which, oddly enough, I sort of approve of. It's tough to say as a Browns fan but that was a great hire. Yeah, he's getting help from LeBeau, but what coach doesn't need good coordinators. Tomlin's a stud.
 
i must say i questioned that hire when they did it, thought for sure Whiz or Grimm would have gotten it, but it has certainly worked out well.
 
You're completely right. But what. the. f**k.

Like you said, this thing is almost certainly going to feel very much like a Steeler home game. ESPN continually mocks the fact that when they go to TB they can't seem to find an AZ fan. There was a poll on ESPN today which asked if the last two weeks have changed your mind as to who is going to win and only 11% said they'd flipped to the Cardinals.

Now that 'could' be enough to sway it, but it feels to me the coverage has been slanted toward Pittsburgh--and sort of rightfully so, they have more fans. But it's been all Tomlin and Ben with a little Kurt Warner thrown in on the other side.

It's confusing, but I don't like it. It's not going to change my play, but I don't like it.

Joe the public loves the feel good stories, and the big offenses...there both very pretty.

Pitt just wins baby...now by more than 6.5...who knows.
 
I think another reason for all of the Arizona love comes from ESPN and the other media outlets portraying the Cards as the "hot" team. The problem with this portrayel is that the Steelers are actually the "hotter" of the two teams IMO. If you compare the last 3 games these teams have played, Pittsburgh absolutely dominated all three (Clev, SD - another "hot" team and Bal) - in fact the only time Pittsburgh trailed in any of those games was 7-0 early in the SD game. Arizona did dominate Carolina, but they trailed at halftime (at home) to a mediocre Atlanta team and were losing in the 4Q to Philly (also at home). Obviously, to get to this point, both teams have to be hot and on a winning streak. The fact is that Pittsburgh's wins have been in much more convincing fashion while Arizona's wins (with the exception of Carolina) have only been impressive because they were not expected to win. I think this goes down much like the other Cinderella story this year - the Tampa Bay Devil Rays - where the Cinderella team blew its load to get to the big dance and then were defeated convincingly by a superior team (coincdence this game is in Tampa Bay???)
 
the more i think about it the more i think Pittsburgh just smothers them

The more I think about it, the more I'm worried about that as well. We haven't had a good *ss-kicking in the SB in some time.
 
its one of those games where if i take Arizona im gonna be sitting there in the second quarter after warners 2nd fumble in his own territory and be pounding my head into the wall
 
of course if i take pittsburgh, theyll fall behind early and Ben will start forcing things and ill be kicking myself for not taking the points

i might just stick to a ton of props
 
I'm going to hold small tickets on AZ +7.5 and ML, but play props more.

I've got AZ over 20, and both teams over 14 (Matchbook) which I like.

I may look at FG props and sack props as well.
 
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