Saturday lines and discussion

the miami heat are beat up so bad... they shouldn't be favorites against anyone in the league even they are at home against the knicks

the nets shouldn't be road favorites against anyone even if they are playing the clips, although in a weird way nets play better on the road
 
Admittedly, I'm playing law of averages, Master, and what better time than tomorrow eve. against the Knickerbockers?
 
Gotta believe Milwaukee and Detroit are plays tomorrow night, no?

Milwaukee +6 and Detroit -6?
 
2 games come under the umbrella of home (2 days) rest vs b2b teams

Indiana/Sacramento
Orlando/Portland

Orlando lost their last game, Port off a road win
Indiana won their last game, Sactoe off a road win
 
I also think Memphis can overrun Charlotte. Both teams B2B, but Charlotte's performance arc seems to be coming to an end precisely when it's led to them being made a decent Fav for this game.

Charlotte is 2-7 ATS their last 9 as a Fav. Their recent 6-0 ATS streak was as a Dog every time.

Memphis 4-1 ATS in regulation their last 5, only failure a bad scheduling spot off a tough game the night before. No hard game the night before here.
 
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Haven't had a chance to may attention this week so I figured I'd do some personal writeups for each game to reaquaint myself with the league.


TOR/PHI

PHI's 3rd home game out of their last 13 contests. Lost to MLW in a terrible spot and came up short as a short fav vs. CHI. Last home win was Dec. 26th vs Miami. The 76ers have also lost thier first three matchups with Toronto this year losing at home by two as a two point dog to the Raptors. Toronto also beat the Sixers 3 of 4 last year including two Toronto victories in PHI.

Toronto had 4 starters play 38+ minutes against the Hawks last night while the Sixers had Iggy play 40 with three other starters around 33. Toronto has Boston on deck, but with three days rest after PHI I don't see that as a worry. Sixers starting a 3 game home stand with INDY and DET following TOR. Raptors have played two straight games with more steals than turnovers and that's very impressive.

Not really sure anything interests me in this game. A bit hard for me to bet on a team sweeping the season series, but with the way the Raptors are handling the ball on offense (63 assists to 75 field goals last two games and 21 turnovers) makes it just as difficult to bet on the Sixers. Should be a good game and I'd have to lean TOR, but would probably choose ML rather than lay the 2' or 3 points.
 
2 games come under the umbrella of home (2 days) rest vs b2b teams

Indiana/Sacramento
Orlando/Portland

Orlando lost their last game, Port off a road win
Indiana won their last game, Sactoe off a road win


Sacramento really intrigues me right now. Not sure how they're going to react on a B2B with the big three. With the limited minutes they've been playing plus the fact they should be as fresh as anybody in the leauge I have a hard time taking the rest Indy has to seriously. Add in the evergoing turmoil in Indy and I lose interest in Indy.
 
I also think Memphis can overrun Charlotte. Both teams B2B, but Charlotte's performance arc seems to be coming to an end precisely when it's led to them being made a decent Fav for this game.

Charlotte is 2-7 ATS their last 9 as a Fav. Their recent 6-0 ATS streak was as a Dog every time.

Memphis 4-1 ATS in regulation their last 5, only failure a bad scheduling spot off a tough game the night before. no hard game the night ebfore here.


Memphis also 4-1 ATS on the road L5. Only loss was by 2 points @GSW on a B2B off Sacramento. Agree with Memphis here as they've been trending up since their big win @Indy. Minus 1 QTR vs. LA and the B2B against GSW they've played very well.
 
SAC/IND

As BC mentioned a B2B for SAC with Indy on two days rest. Not sure how tired Sacramento can be as they have rediculous depth with the return of Bibby, Artest and Martin. Only Miller played more than 33 minutes last night vs. Detroit. Worth keeping an eye on Martin today as he suffered a "finger injury" but played thru it versus the Pistons. Want to check his status before any plays are submitted here.

Indy's dealing with the "suspension", albeit paid, of Tinsley. No real gurantee that he'll be playing here, but one can presume that he'll be in there. Pacers 2nd game off of 5 game WC trip and they take off for a four game roadie thru the EC after this one. You've got to think this is a pretty big game for the 9th seed in the EC, but the Kings do have a bit of a revenge after losing at home last week to the Pacers at home as a small fav.

Lots of uncertainties in this one with the lineups of SAC possibly changing and the status of Tinsley. More interested to see if the books dare to release a total south of 210 here. Guessing we'll see a 215 or so, but would love to see something lower.
 
POR/ORL

Definitely interested in the Magic here. Lots of different angles to like the Magic. B2B thread of BC's. The Magic simply fell asleep in the 2nd half against CHA and the WC roadie probably caught up with them a bit as well. Now playing their 3rd game in 6 games they should be rested up playing a Portland squad that is playing their 5th game in 7 days.

Orlando took down POR by 11 in late November in Portland and that was with Howard being held to 9 points on 4/10 shooting. With ORL being off a loss and having a schedule of @MEM, @DET, BOS they absolutely HAVE to get this game.

Looking for ORL at 3' or 4, but also another ML possibility or simply sitting out the 1st half hoping for a better # at the half.
 
will likely be on

Detroit- can almost guarentee BAR will be on this one biggish

Orlando

SanAnt/hous UNDER- if you've gambled for a long enough time, you know. its a rule, neither team may go past 90
 
Anyone know the rational behind the NY/Miami line being so high?

Miami has focused on defense but they haven't been able to score outside of Shaq and Wade. They're an old team that was extended tonight and now they're expected to break 100 against the Knicks who have enough bodies to bother Shaq. I don't get it. The Knicks aren't exactly the Suns either, and they're also on a B2B.
 
NY/MIA

I said this in another thread earlier this week but it's worth repeating. The Knicks have covered 13 games since Thanksgiving. Of those 13 games they covered they were underdogs in every one of them and they won 10 OF THEM SU. Of those 10 they were 5+ point underdogs in 5 of them. So if you want to play the Knicks put some on the ML as well as they seem to either win or give up.

Speaking of giving up the Miami Heat are getting closer by the day to packing it in. The fact that they are still the Miami Heat keeps their lines within reason, but the damn may break soon. A 26 point loss followed by a 30 point home loss to the Bulls preceded the 9 point loss to the Blazers last night. If they're going to win anytime soon it'll be against the Knicks as they have CLE, SAN, IND, BOS, @ORL coming up. Not sure what the physche of the Heat will be and that'll probably keep me away from this one.

The big reality is that Miami has lost to MLW at home, beat Minny by 4, lost to SEA at home and lost to ATL at home. EDIT: 4/5 for the Knicks. Only other 4/5 they've played this year they lost by 32 to the Nuggets. Probably worth a look at the Heat here as painful as it might end up being. I had a small lean towards the Knicks ML, but with the 4/5 I can't do it.
 
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Anyone know the rational behind the NY/Miami line being so high?

Miami has focused on defense but they haven't been able to score outside of Shaq and Wade. They're an old team that was extended tonight and now they're expected to break 100 against the Knicks who have enough bodies to bother Shaq. I don't get it. The Knicks aren't exactly the Suns either, and they're also on a B2B.

Well the Knicks have averaged 98 a game without Marbury in the lineup and the Heat are 8-3 O/U on B2B's this year. The first thing that's going to go with Miami in terms of motivation is their defense and that's been evident multiple times this year already. It's been since 12/14 against Minny that the Heat allowed less than 94 points and that's the only occurence since 11/27 (25 games). Highly unlikely that the Knicks will be less than 94 and if they simply hit their average (without Marbury) then add the spread to that and you'll have 199. Looks about right to me.
 
Well the Knicks have averaged 98 a game without Marbury in the lineup and the Heat are 8-3 O/U on B2B's this year. The first thing that's going to go with Miami in terms of motivation is their defense and that's been evident multiple times this year already. It's been since 12/14 against Minny that the Heat allowed less than 94 points and that's the only occurence since 11/27 (25 games). Highly unlikely that the Knicks will be less than 94 and if they simply hit their average (without Marbury) then add the spread to that and you'll have 199. Looks about right to me.

We disagree here.

According to the ESPN announcers Miami practice was focused solely on defense for the first time all year because they finally had everyone somewhat healthy. If Pat Riley made it a point of emphasis I don't see them forgetting about it a day later. (Maybe in a week tho..)

Second, the Knicks only played 4 games without Marbury and look at the teams they played.. Washington x2, NJ and Detroit. They only went over 100 twice. With Washington and NJ both being high-paced running teams. And lets not exclude JCraw going 6-7 and and 6-10 from 3 in the two games over 100 -- wont happen again, the Heat don't need to help on Randolph or Curry. For one, I would argue the sample size is too small.. but second Miami is not a running team. If the Knicks barely scratch the surface of 100 against Washington and NJ where they had JCraw raining 3s how can they be expected to hit 100 tomorrow on a B2B against a Miami team that will feed Shaq early and often.

Oh, and lets not forget .. no gimmes for Randolph and Curry tomorrow. Shaq and Haslem are great interior defenders. Also, I have a hard time believing the Heat will score after they left so much out on the court tonight. (They're old!)
 
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after that defensive practice, the Heat had, perhaps, 6 minutes (in the 3rd) of a 48 minute game where they played good defense.

and they still gave up 98 to portland which is more of a plodding offensive team. And they average 95 on the road this season.

I actually think you've got a decent idea with the under here, but the Knicks may well score 110 tomorrow. I wouldn't count on Miami defense......

GL if you take it.
 
We disagree here.

First off disagreements are good. They creat discussion which only helps both of us.

According to the ESPN announcers Miami practice was focused solely on defense for the first time all year because they finally had everyone somewhat healthy. If Pat Riley made it a point of emphasis I don't see them forgetting about it a day later. (Maybe in a week tho..)

Didn't watch the game, but I certainly take your word that they said Miami was working on their D. They need to. So I'm going to presume that the Heat worked on their "defense" during the 4 off days they had. Off those 4 days off they came out and gave up 126 to the Bulls. Only the Sonics gave up close to that # against the Bulls. Otherwise the Bulls have only crossed the 110 mark 3 times all year not including the Heat game.

Maybe they were rusty off of so much time off? Well they gave up 98 to the Blazers who have recently put up 90 @BOS, 99 @NJN, 93 @TOR in REG, 88 @CHI in REG and 90 @MIN. 99 would be a season high on the road for the Blazers if it wasn't for the fact that they've played defensiveless teams in UTA, DEN and MEM. So I'd say the 98 would be a pretty big # for the Blazers, certainly above normal standards for their road games. So if that's what Miami is capable off after working on their defense consider me unconcened.

Second, the Knicks only played 4 games without Marbury and look at the teams they played.. Washington x2, NJ and Detroit. They only went over 100 twice. With Washington and NJ both being high-paced running teams. And lets not exclude JCraw going 6-7 and and 6-10 from 3 in the two games over 100 -- wont happen again, the Heat don't need to help on Randolph or Curry! For one, I would argue the sample size is too small.. but second. Miami is not a running team. If the Knicks barely scratch the surface of 100 against Washington and NJ how can they be expected to hit 100 tomorrow on a B2B against a Miami team that will feed Shaq early and often.

The Knicks have played 15 games this year without Marbury seeing any game action and those are the games that I collected my data from. Beyond that saying WAS, NJ, and DET are "high-paced running teams" would be completely false. The Pistons rank 30th in pace while the Wiz and Nets are tied for 21st in the league. Meanwhile the Heat are 14th in the league, certainly not quick but faster paced than the previously mentioned teams, and they'd be the lowest ranked team in terms of deffensive efficiency among the mention teams at 25th.

In a recent games for the Knicks on a B2B they scored 111 against the Nets who are a slower paced team and more efficient defensive squad than the Heat. And yes that game was on the road.

Oh, and lets not forget .. no gimmes for Randolph and Curry tomorrow. Shaq and Haslem are great interior defenders. Also, I have a hard time believing the Heat will score after they left so much out on the court tonight. (They're old!)

Curry didn't have much trouble against Shaq earlier this year going for 19 points on 7/12 shooting. Randolph didn't play in the game, but Shaq isn't the defender he used to be. Lots of big bodies in this game, but none that can play a lick of D. That fact that "they're old" only leads more to an over play. The first thing they're going to lose effort in is playing D.

I'm not even considering playing the over at this point. I'm just trying to illustrate why the line is where it is. I'll be the first to wish you good luck if you play the under, but I certainly wouldn't bet it with the assumption that the Heat are going to hold somebody under 90 points. With the Knicks on 4/5 it's completely possible that they come out completely flat similar to the results that occurred on 11/17 @DEN. I'm just not sure that the Heat have the team that can come out and win the 1st half by 18 deflating any hopes of the Knicks and killing the over.
 
First off disagreements are good. They creat discussion which only helps both of us.

I agree. :)

Didn't watch the game, but I certainly take your word that they said Miami was working on their D. They need to. So I'm going to presume that the Heat worked on their "defense" during the 4 off days they had. Off those 4 days off they came out and gave up 126 to the Bulls. Only the Sonics gave up close to that # against the Bulls. Otherwise the Bulls have only crossed the 110 mark 3 times all year not including the Heat game.

I wish I had payed more attention to the timeline portion of the comments, but remember Hubie saying the defensive practice was prompted by the Bulls massacre.

Maybe they were rusty off of so much time off? Well they gave up 98 to the Blazers who have recently put up 90 @BOS, 99 @NJN, 93 @TOR in REG, 88 @CHI in REG and 90 @MIN. 99 would be a season high on the road for the Blazers if it wasn't for the fact that they've played defensiveless teams in UTA, DEN and MEM. So I'd say the 98 would be a pretty big # for the Blazers, certainly above normal standards for their road games. So if that's what Miami is capable off after working on their defense consider me unconcened.

I agree. 98 is higher than I would have liked to see. But I also think it's a bit bloated. Something like 10 points in 30 seconds towards the end. I think Miami played well on D allowing mostly jumpshots the whole game but letup in the end.

The Knicks have played 15 games this year without Marbury seeing any game action and those are the games that I collected my data from. Beyond that saying WAS, NJ, and DET are "high-paced running teams" would be completely false. The Pistons rank 30th in pace while the Wiz and Nets are tied for 21st in the league. Meanwhile the Heat are 14th in the league, certainly not quick but faster paced than the previously mentioned teams, and they'd be the lowest ranked team in terms of deffensive efficiency among the mention teams at 25th.

In a recent games for the Knicks on a B2B they scored 111 against the Nets who are a slower paced team and more efficient defensive squad than the Heat. And yes that game was on the road.

I definately agree the Pistons play slow. But I have a hard time swallowing the argument that the Heat play at a faster pace than the Nets or Wizards with Shaq in the lineup.

Curry didn't have much trouble against Shaq earlier this year going for 19 points on 7/12 shooting. Randolph didn't play in the game, but Shaq isn't the defender he used to be. Lots of big bodies in this game, but none that can play a lick of D. That fact that "they're old" only leads more to an over play. The first thing they're going to lose effort in is playing D.

But did you notice the score of that game? 71-75? Eek. And Curry only caught 6 boards (4 TOs too!). I appreciate the Knick bodies because Shaq was getting multiple offensive rebound tip-ins tonight. The Blazers didn't have anyone outside of Pryzbilla that could keep him out of the paint. (Fry and LaFrentz were too small.) I think Curry and even James are better equiped to keep Shaq away from the basket.

I'm not even considering playing the over at this point. I'm just trying to illustrate why the line is where it is. I'll be the first to wish you good luck if you play the under, but I certainly wouldn't bet it with the assumption that the Heat are going to hold somebody under 90 points. With the Knicks on 4/5 it's completely possible that they come out completely flat similar to the results that occurred on 11/17 @DEN. I'm just not sure that the Heat have the team that can come out and win the 1st half by 18 deflating any hopes of the Knicks and killing the over.

Yah, thanks for the opposing view. I just can't picture a 100-97 or a 100-100 game. I see something more like 86-95 or something around there.
 
D. Wade is having his birthday party tonite in South Beach after the game....the whole team is supposed to be there....In the Miami Herald this AM.
 
how are you getting info on who is going to be officiating in upcoming games? I thought they kept that info pretty close to the vest.
 
Have actually posted at least 4 times that the referees are listed at NBA.com in News section as referee assignments. Simply compare with covers referee info to get tendencies.
 
Thanks Bud, up 4 now so I'm feelin better. OT is my only fear.

(I played the Sportsbook maximum so I'm a lil wired.)
 
Thanks Bud, up 4 now so I'm feelin better. OT is my only fear.

(I played the Sportsbook maximum so I'm a lil wired.)


It was a great discussion concerning the game and I'd love nothing more than you hitting your bet.


And it hits. Congrats man. Way to stay strong with your play.
 
Thanks Red and JPicks.

Everything after the 1Q seemed to go right. I was pretty pumped the whole game. If I was able to bet 2,000$ I probably would have.. damn Sportsbook.com :) That said, I still cleared $1,500. I'm on a hell of a run and most of it is due to the great discussions here at CTG.

Thanks everyone, lets get that money! :cheers:
 
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