Question for the Texas boys

[golferjoe]

A question for all the Texas boys. If Okie somehow loses to Okie Lite, should Texas Tech jump Texas in the Polls?
Based on all the logic that I've read here, it's a NO BRAINER Head to Head counts. Can't overlook it.

Based on that premise, Texas MUST drop behind TT in the polls no matter where TT is. Correct?

Or please spin this the Longhorn way.

opcorn:

 

[RJ Esq]

A question for all the Texas boys. If Okie somehow loses to Okie Lite, should Texas Tech jump Texas in the Polls?
Based on all the logic that I've read here, it's a NO BRAINER Head to Head counts. Can't overlook it.

Based on that premise, Texas MUST drop behind TT in the polls no matter where TT is. Correct?

Or please spin this the Longhorn way.

opcorn:

No spin necessary.

If Oklahoma St beats OU, then it just further shows that the BCS needs a playoff. Any great team can beat any other great team in a single game--particularly at home.

But, with respect to the BCS and the Big XII South, it means TT goes to the Big XII Championship Game. The only remaining 1 loss teams would be TT and Texas and TT has the tie-breaker in that matchup.

 

[golferjoe]

A good attorney when cornered, will always attempt to redirect the situation into one that favors his side while not answering the question.

However, the question was, should Texas fall behind TT in the polls therby eliminating them from BCS title game implications. Surely TT will fall behind USC.

 

[RJ Esq]

Yes. TT will fall below USC and even Utah for two main reasons: (1) weak non-conf schedule and (2) their embarrasing loss last night.

That was already answered in another thread.

 

[majent]

A question for all the Texas boys. If Okie somehow loses to Okie Lite, should Texas Tech jump Texas in the Polls?
Based on all the logic that I've read here, it's a NO BRAINER Head to Head counts. Can't overlook it.

Based on that premise, Texas MUST drop behind TT in the polls no matter where TT is. Correct?

Or please spin this the Longhorn way.

opcorn:

Bingo.

And sure enough, Tech has dropped below Texas in both the AP and USA Today polls even though both have 10-1 records and Tech beat Texas straight up.

Hmmmmmm.

 

[RJ Esq]

Bingo.

And sure enough, Tech has dropped below Texas in both the AP and USA Today polls even though both have 10-1 records and Tech beat Texas straight up.

Hmmmmmm.

Majent, you're going to get into the same circular argument here about who should be higher...

Texas>OU>Tech>Texas>OU>Tech>Texas....

Strength of schedule ruined Tech and maybe Texas a little but not as badly. Most of OU jumping Texas was the margin of shit kicking and the primacy of memory (last night fresher than what happened in Dallas).

All of this needs to be settled on the field...again.

 

[RetroVK]

The difference is that ou and texas have relatively similar schedules and tech has had an easy schedule. You also have the fact that tech beat texas at home , where as the texas victory over ou was on a neutral.

Texas already beat oklahoma on a neutral so that has been answered.

Who do you make a favorite on a neutral between texas and texas tech ... exactly .. texas is over a score favorite. Now , i dont think taht should matter , it should be about actual accomplishment .... and it IS hard to argue that texas should be ranked higher than tech when they both have one loss and tech beat the horns. But that is miles from being the same argument concerning whether ou should be ranked over texas ... again .. more comparable schedules and the head to head contest came on a neutral field and texas bitch slapped them.

 

[majent]

Spin, spin, spin

I'm not buying it, GolferJoe's not buying it, any fair and rational person is not buying it, and most importantly, the coaches and writers are not buying it.

 

[RJ Esq]

Given recent bowl history, I'd bet against Tech heavy in the bowl this year and probably play medium against OU.

Tech has struggled mightily in the last 3 bowls, particularly in the 1H. They are now going to have a month or so to be disappointed and unmotivated going into the Cotton Bowl. I think Ole Miss or whoever they play can get up on them by a TD or 2 by half.

OU. Stoops has not done recently in bowls and hasn't won a bowl game since the 2005 Holiday Bowl with perhaps his worst team in his tenure. The last 2 years they were probably underestimating their opponents, but what about the 2004 MNC against USC? Why didn't they show up then?

I can tell you that if Tech, OU, and Texas wanted to play at a neutral field in 2 weeks with a bye for prep, I'd set the lines as follows:

Texas and OU over Tech by 7.
Texas v. OU at a pick.

 

[RJ Esq]

Spin, spin, spin

I'm not buying it, GolferJoe's not buying it, any fair and rational person is not buying it, and most importantly, the coaches and writers are not buying it.

Now who's spinning?

There is no clear logical answer to it. Just arguments.

And GolferJoe (USC fan) and you (OU fan) aren't buying it? Shocker.

 

[golferjoe]

Actually I despise USC, but I enjoy stirring the pot a bit. I'm not impressed with teams that give up a BOATLOAD of points defensively. Offenses can be stopped. Witness last night.

I am a fan of college football. I have a nice LongHorn trophy and was a big UT fan with ole Darryl Royal.

I have season tix to that wacky wacky MAC and have attended my fair share of DIV 1aa and Div 2 games over the years.

Interesting discussion and I am trying to get the justification from UT fans should Okie lose this week.

 

[picks4cash]

well if golferjoe and majent don't buy it, i guess the rest of us shouldn't either (?)

how many anti-UT posts are you two going to drum up over the next few days?

bunch of losers...in every post regarding ut majent has some bullshit to say.

and i just have no idea about golferjoe.

get lost you clowns.

 

[RJ Esq]

Actually I despise USC, but I enjoy stirring the pot a bit. I'm not impressed with teams that give up a BOATLOAD of points defensively. Offenses can be stopped. Witness last night.

I am a fan of college football. I have a nice LongHorn trophy and was a big UT fan with ole Darryl Royal.

I have season tix to that wacky wacky MAC and have attended my fair share of DIV 1aa and Div 2 games over the years.

Interesting discussion and I am trying to get the justification from UT fans should Okie lose this week.

You start off with the wrong premise: that Texas must justify it.

If OU loses, they have 2 losses and are out of it.

Tech gets into the Big XII Championship regardless of where they are ranked.

Reasons why Texas should be higher than Tech:
1. Better strength of schedule (objective)
2. Texas beat OU who smoked Tech (objective)
3. Body of work more complete/stronger/consistent (subjective)
4. Better quality wins (here's where having Mizzou on the schedule from the North would help) (objective--Mizzou is better than KSU)
5. One play away from beating Tech on the road/close road loss (objective)

Reasons why Tech should be higher than Texas:
1. Tech beat Texas (objective)
2. Texas beat OU on neutral, Tech lost on the road (objective)
3. Tech dominated Texas stat wise (objective)

Both teams have arguments. The way I would rank the teams is how would they do next week on a neutral field. In that respect I have Tech 3rd in the discussion between Texas and OU who I have tied.

Again, this should all be settled on the field and arrangements made for when shit like this happens other than falling back on the polls.

Right now, Tech is the most screwed in the process, followed by Texas. No idea how, yet again, OU comes out on top in a 3 way tie.

 

[ynnhoj316]

It'd be a lot easier if one of the 3 teams would've just gone undefeated.

 

[RJ Esq]

It'd be a lot easier if one of the 3 teams would've just gone undefeated.

Well, yeah, of course.

That's why I blame Texas first and Tech second for our (Texas') current predicament.

Texas should have been more motivated, played better, and at the end should have closed against Tech. I won't go so far as to personally blame Blake Gideon and I hope none of our fans ever do. Kid played great for us and made a mistake. It shouldn't all be on him.

As for Tech, I rooted for you to lose but was hoping it would be competitive. Now, the worst possible outcome occurred with OU now in the drivers' seat in a 3-way tie-breaker and both Texas and Tech on the outside looking in. Satan couldn't hav planned it better.

 

[horses]

So let me get this straight...if OSU beats OU next week...and Tech beats Missouri in the B12 title game...Tech will play the SEC winner for the MNC? If so, that is a somewhat realistic scenario for the Red Raiders. Just need the upset next week in Stillwater and it'd be back in their hands.

 

[RJ Esq]

So let me get this straight...if OSU beats OU next week...and Tech beats Missouri in the B12 title game...Tech will play the SEC winner for the MNC? If so, that is a somewhat realistic scenario for the Red Raiders. Just need the upset next week in Stillwater and it'd be back in their hands.

Yeah, could still happen but pretty damn sure OU wins in Stillwater.

Also, Mizzou could beat Tech. I'd make Tech the favorite, but could happen. In that case, Texas would go most likely although there would be a clamor form USC homers for them to go.

 

[SHSUHorn]

OU went to the title game vs LSU despite not being the conference champion. It can happen.

 

[horses]

Screw USC, what about Utah? Can anybody name a scenario where a non-BCS team can ever play in the MNC. Anyway...this system really DOES piss me off...

I agree with you about OU winning next week, just saying, Tech is just one Bedlam upset away from having their fate back in their hands after such a sound beating.

 

[RJ Esq]

Screw USC, what about Utah? Can anybody name a scenario where a non-BCS team can ever play in the MNC. Anyway...this system really DOES piss me off...

I agree with you about OU winning next week, just saying, Tech is just one Bedlam upset away from having their fate back in their hands after such a sound beating.

The answer is most likely not or ever. Can you imagine another BYU MNC occuring?

 

[aplous]

So let me get this straight...if OSU beats OU next week...and Tech beats Missouri in the B12 title game...Tech will play the SEC winner for the MNC? If so, that is a somewhat realistic scenario for the Red Raiders. Just need the upset next week in Stillwater and it'd be back in their hands.

Tech is done for the National Title. Even if OU loses Saturday and they beat MU, they wont jump 1 loss USC.


MNC is Bama Fla/winner v. OU/Texas/USC. I think that if OU loses at Stillwater, then Texas could play in the MNC w/ out winning the Big 12, or USC.....all depends on the voters.

Tech's only BCS hope is OU loses and they beat MU and get in the Fiesta.

 

[horses]

Fair enough Aplous...

Guess I can't understand why a 1-loss team from a vastly superior conference that had to win an extra game against a top 15 team (Missouri) would be trailing USC. Well, actually, I do understand I just don't agree with it.

 

[RJ Esq]

Fair enough Aplous...

Guess I can't understand why a 1-loss team from a vastly superior conference that had to win an extra game against a top 15 team (Missouri) would be trailing USC. Well, actually, I do understand I just don't agree with it.

Voters are lame and it's political? Nah.

 

[O-State]

IMO is Okie State wins this weekend then nobody from the Big Twelve deserves to go to the title game.

No way you can take Texas over Tech. What is a playoff?? Who wins straight up, we have the answer despite who is better neutral field we have results that is college football. Same argument Texas is over Oklahoma

If Okie State wins

USC deserves to be in the title game as the highest ranked 1 loss team.

 

[O-State]

Or Penn State

 

[aplous]

For the sake of it......lets say there is an 8 team playoff system installed.

ACC winner
Big East winner
Bama
Florida
OU
Texas
TTech
USC (or Pac 10 winner)
Utah, Boise, Ball (all undefeated, therefore have a good case to be in)
Penn St

How does that solve anything? Either undefeated teams get left out, or top 5 teams that dont win their conference get left out. 16 team playoff is the only way to go.

All of the above teams have a claim to be in (either we are unbeaten, won our conference, or are top 5 caliber)....if it is 16 team, some teams still get left out, but no one would cry about it b/c they wouldnt be likely to win it (Mizzou, TCU, Cincy, UGA).

 

[RJ Esq]

For the sake of it......lets say there is an 8 team playoff system installed.

ACC winner
Big East winner
Bama
Florida
OU
Texas
TTech
USC (or Pac 10 winner)
Utah, Boise, Ball (all undefeated, therefore have a good case to be in)
Penn St

How does that solve anything? Either undefeated teams get left out, or top 5 teams that dont win their conference get left out. 16 team playoff is the only way to go.

All of the above teams have a claim to be in (either we are unbeaten, won our conference, or are top 5 caliber)....if it is 16 team, some teams still get left out, but no one would cry about it b/c they wouldnt be likely to win it (Mizzou, TCU, Cincy, UGA).

Ya know. I'm over the whole conference title winner automatically getting in from a weak conference. I'd only take conference champs if in the top 10, so this year, I'd have:

Bama
Florida
OU
Texas
TT
USC
Utah
Penn St

Losers in this scenario: Ohio St, ACC winner, Big East winner

No matter what scenario you choose, there will be bubble losers. However, even an 8 team playoff is fairer than a system that only takes 2 and cannot reconcile a 3 team tie-breaker or what to do when there are 5+ teams with the same record who have an argument of going (as will happen this year.

 

[aplous]

Ya know. I'm over the whole conference title winner automatically getting in from a weak conference. I'd only take conference champs if in the top 10, so this year, I'd have:

Bama
Florida
OU
Texas
TT
USC
Utah
Penn St

Losers in this scenario: Ohio St, ACC winner, Big East winner

No matter what scenario you choose, there will be bubble losers. However, even an 8 team playoff is fairer than a system that only takes 2 and cannot reconcile a 3 team tie-breaker or what to do when there are 5+ teams with the same record who have an argument of going (as will happen this year.

How come Utah over Boise?

 

[RJ Esq]

How come Utah over Boise?

Who has Boise beaten? WAC is down this year and MWC is a better conference. They also beat Oregon St who could win the Pac-10. Also ranked higher.

 

[aplous]

Who has Boise beaten? WAC is down this year and MWC is a better conference. They also beat Oregon St who could win the Pac-10. Also ranked higher.

at Oregon?

That argument confirms that there would still be probs with an 8 team playoff.

How does one blame Boise for winning every game on their schedule? Before the year if someone said that one of the Oregon schools might be in the Rose most would have thought Ducks, not Beavs, and that is who Boise had scheduled.

 

[majent]

OU went to the title game vs LSU despite not being the conference champion. It can happen.

That was in 2003 BEFORE the conference champion game figured into the BCS equation. Because of the K-State blowout of OU in a game OU did not give a crap about, the BCS formula was amended to include conference title games.

 

[majent]

bunch of losers...in every post regarding ut majent has some bullshit to say.

get lost you clowns.

If you cannot handle the truth, don't read. If you want Texas apologists and Longhorn ass-kissers, the site will suck. Takes all types to make the world go round. Sorry the writers and coaches voted for OU above you guys. Deal with it.

I could give 2 shits. It's not gonna stop me from posting. Pound sand.

 

[RJ Esq]

If you cannot handle the truth, don't read. If you want Texas apologists and Longhorn ass-kissers, the site will suck. Takes all types to make the world go round. Sorry the writers and coaches voted for OU above you guys. Deal with it.

I could give 2 shits. It's not gonna stop me from posting. Pound sand.

I wonder if the writers and coaches hosed OU whether you would simply "deal with it".

I highly doubt it. I'd think you'd be a little pissed.

 

[majent]

I wonder if the writers and coaches hosed OU whether you would simply "deal with it".

I highly doubt it. I'd think you'd be a little pissed.

I'm a pretty fair guy. When Texas beat OU I made no excuses, and in fact gave credit to Texas for being "the better team".

The bitching and whining coming from *some* of the Texas fans (not you RJ) is hilarious and sad, wrapped into one.

OU smashed the team by 44 who beat Texas by 6.

Texas beat OSU in Austin by 4. Maybe after OU beats OSU by more than 4 in Stillwater, we can put this all to rest.

Anyhow, all of this crying and moping and excuse making is ruining my enjoyment of the fact that my OU Sooners are the best team in the BIG-12. I know what I know, and I know I'm right. The writers and the coaches agree, and that's all that matters.

I'm out. You all carry on.

 

[RJ Esq]

I'm a pretty fair guy. When Texas beat OU I made no excuses, and in fact gave credit to Texas for being "the better team".

The bitching and whining coming from *some* of the Texas fans (not you RJ) is hilarious and sad, wrapped into one.

OU smashed the team by 44 who beat Texas by 6.

Texas beat OSU in Austin by 4. Maybe after OU beats OSU by more than 4 in Stillwater, we can put this all to rest.

Anyhow, all of this crying and moping and excuse making is ruining my enjoyment. I know what I know, and I know I'm right.

I'm out. You all carry on.

Feel free to post some picks then.

Also, hard to compare wins against common opponents. If they are directly comparable, then why isn't Texas better than OU for beating Kansas on the road 35-7 when OU only beat them at home by 14? Why isn't Tech better than either OU or Texas given that they really shitkicked KU on the road.

Some teams matchup better with others; then there are injuries which make the same teams different from week to week, etc.

All I'm saying is it is not a direct comparison and in the three way round robbin, each team is 1-1 against the others.