Orange Bowl

SportsNut

Breaking it down briefly
Yesterday was one of those days where it was fun to watch your storyline play out. Remember three huge keys for me OU's poor performance on the road this season , Pat White's improved passing game and WVU much improved defense although it much better then I could have ever expected. Honestly those announcers irrated the crap out of me kissing OU's ass all game and rooting for them. Every time they said no one could have expected this , I wanted to say why dont I send you a copy of my writeup dumbass! I think most know I am not a big fan of anything pertaining to media. I do love the Bill Stewart story though. Having WVU players say this guy is one of us he should be our coach- great story IMO!

I have always enjoyed Bowl Season but this has been great so far. Right now we have had 28 Bowls and I only didnt have strong opinions on two. If I had to chose I had liked Navy and I expected BYU to win and teased them and ML parlayed but never gave serious thought to the line. Took me awhile to get interested in Bowl season. The other 26 bowls if I had played them all I would be 23-3 ATS. Some I would have liked to played but was passed out and missed kickoff. I think I have gone 13-2 ATS here @ CTG plus splitting a parlay which would make me 14-3 ATS. Losing Maryland in the parlay and backing GaTech and Clemson. The reason I am saying this is cause even though I say this alot this game is hands down the toughest to figure out - hands down IMO! So keep that in mind as I am just sharing my logic.....

8 PM : Kansas vs VaTech - Orange Bowl , Dolphins Stadium

I always maintain I do my best to NOT read others opinions on games before I look at them. Here I have seen a comment or two about Kansas being overrated and playing a weak schedule. I agree KU didnt play the toughest schedule but again more representative then SOS is how you handled that competition( how your opponent was playing at the time as well) and for the most part KU blew teams out of the water. Hawaii played a weak schedule and struggled a few times to win. Not the same situation IMO...

Kansas did greatly benefit from starting with 4 straight home games. It's clear though they started the season READY. Early on they didnt play anyone worth a lick. They caught both CMU and Toledo teams who later improve in the midst of struggles and injuries. FIU and SE Louisana are terrible. The outcomes 214 to 23 and while thats amazing one TD allowed was in the final 10 seconds and you could imagine that most 4th quarters saw conservative game calling. It could have been alot worse!! They had 3 conference HOME games vs Baylor , Nebraska as it started to really decline and Iowa State. The did win 179 to 56 though. I think looking at the late season games you can see there defensive numbers dropped off due to better competition.

I felt strongly that Mizzou would beat KU cause there level of football was increasing each week. I know people wont agree but I am not sure today who is better OU or Mizzou. Naturally OU has to be slightily ahead because they won twice but they got on OU on there home field and then after the KU game. Now while I say this I also think KU didnt play that badly vs Mizzou. They started slow but really it was mostly a 2 TD game and they rallied once they got some momentum. You got the feeling by the end of the game that if there was more time KU would have prevailed. Thats my take anyway and from a Mizzou backer that day.

One thing we clearly notice is that KU offense dropped off considerably on the road. They caught Kansas State early when they were playing good football competing @ Auburn before beating Texas with there special teams. So a nice win but not in impressive fashion. Also they had not won there since 1989 and were ranked #24 (KST was). They struggled @ Colorado and A&M both times there defenses were vry good and they werent in real danger of losing the game. However they clearly struggle vs decent defenses. They did open it up on Oklahoma State but again the OSU team was inclined to be in shootouts cause they couldnt stop anyone outside of Indiana. Last game vs Mizzou they started real slow but after attacking a tiring Mizzou defense which really was good by the end of the year.

So what stands out about Kansas is they did play pretty well when traveling but there defense and offense(more the a few) took a few steps back. KU was undervalued all season cause no one believed in them and they covered every number till Mizzou where they were small favs. Is Reesing height a concern? Is Vince Hall playing? Can VaTech run the ball early without Ore?? Will Glennon continue his solid play or is the presuregoing to affect him?

Now VaTech schedule. They looked like shit early and versus weak competition up until the game @ Clemson. The key there was 3 early scores INT return , Punt return and kickoff return all by midway 2nd Q giving them a 24-3 lead and with a great defense they kept it fairly simple after that. Auburn showed what a good defense does to Clemson. Playing @ Duke is useless , the home game vs BC we saw how well the defense played but the offense inability to score allowed BC to hang around and pull out a win despite being outplayed. They won impressively against an overrated GT team but I did like the 480 yds of offense and not suprising the D terrorized another bad offense. Solid win vs FSU but again not impressive. An FSU team up and down all year led to start the 4th before fading and losing Weatherford. For the most part they spanked a sliding Miami team but at one point the Canes trailed by 6 late 3rd quarter before VaTech ran away with it. They beat a very average UVA team who rolled with a great defense problem is VaTechs defense is better and so is the offense. UVA hung around like it did all season before falling this time. The ACC Championship vs BC was revenge but while they prevailed it was another hard fought battle this time with VaTech pulling away late after a 16 all tie at half.

So really down the stretch it was the same deal good special teams , great defense , the reemergence of Bradon Ore and some productive play by Scott Glennon in the passing game. So Ore's early absence could be huge. His final few games YPC were 4.8 , 4.5 , 2.5 , 5.4 , 4.7 ,2.9 . Prior to that he had only 2 games above 4 + YPA in 7 games( Ohio and UNC). KU showed to be solid against the run and so-so vs the pass. Savage @ Okie State did have a good day but none of the other ground games showed up in its first 3 tru road games( T.Temple was okay ). Clearly Glennon is going to have make plays with Josh Morgan here.

Funny part is there really isnt much drama here. VaTech has some with Ore being disciplined for being late and VHall getting hurt non football injury. Naturally one cant forget what happened on the VT campus this summer . With the Hall injury as great as he may be the defense is used to being w/o him so I wont let that sway me much. KU is all about restoring pride to the program thats great and all but non issue for me.

While KU can be passed on we cant leave out having an All American CB . The teams that did pass on them Okie State , Mizzou and even NEB late had some high powered offenses. For all the talk about VT defense they did not play ANY good offenses late in the year. BC has a great QB but as an offense I dont think they are special. So KU should be the best VT has faced since LSU. Also Sharp had just 1 carry being banged up vs Mizzou which supposedlu KU sort of limped into that game.


So what to do , what to do......I guess I like the UND 52 or 1st H Under here cause while KU has a prolific offense it did struggle vs better defenses. While VT will have to show me consistency in the passing game here. For a side right now I think this is a fairly even game and lean KU +3.5 ....I will say I havent seen much of either team and dont know much about VaTechs uses of the 2 QBs...

:cheers:Be Back when I decide.....
 
Sportsnut let me throw in something that might support an under play here. Since 1998 teams that average 32+ and had 40+ days of rest have gone 6-18 ATS (Texas Tech latest victim). These offenses are now out of sync and can't put up their usual numbers. Makes sense to me!
 
Nut,

VT's 2 qb system is more than capable, Glennon has matured through the season and grown into a very good game manager and decesion maker, Taylor on the other hand is a pure athlete, his speed and ability to cut on a dime is reminesent of Mike Vick. I think the big game exp. that VT has along with their edge on defense and special teams ability will lend to a 5-8 point victory. You say that VT hasnt played an electric offense since LSU, well Kansas hasn't played a respected defense all year imo. If VT doesn't turn the ball over and they are leading in the 2nd half the game is over. Frank Beamer knows how to close games out. I think Kansas grew too fast during the season and they crash hard tonight.
Good Luck with whatever you play.
:cheers:
 
Nut,

VT's 2 qb system is more than capable, Glennon has matured through the season and grown into a very good game manager and decesion maker, Taylor on the other hand is a pure athlete, his speed and ability to cut on a dime is reminesent of Mike Vick. I think the big game exp. that VT has along with their edge on defense and special teams ability will lend to a 5-8 point victory. You say that VT hasnt played an electric offense since LSU, well Kansas hasn't played a respected defense all year imo. If VT doesn't turn the ball over and they are leading in the 2nd half the game is over. Frank Beamer knows how to close games out. I think Kansas grew too fast during the season and they crash hard tonight.
Good Luck with whatever you play.
:cheers:

whats so great about the VT defense? they have decent numbers on paper, but that has been against some bad offenses in the ACC.

Its funny how we all watch these teams and then when you start to talk about it, everyone has completely different perceptions of what we have seen.
 
Sharpie : I have to agree with you bro. I'll let others agrue about who VT opposed but I see the best offense being BC. I have maintained all along the Eagles are not a good offense. Matt Ryan is a very good QB. They dont scare me running the ball and the WRs are blue collar possession types. Does anyone need any reaffirming how FSU & Miami struggled all year. Duke...next ! That leaves Clemson and simply look at what a good Auburn defense did to them. It doesnt really matter who is better on D Auburn or VaTech but the point is both have strong defensive reputations and shut Clemson down. So I agree who has VaTech shut down? Other then BC...

Trout : I see Misouri as being more then a decent defense. Just like no one saw WVU defense as tough I think Mizzou is under the radar. Not as good as WVU showed but certainly a solid defense. Also they played versus above avergae defenses when they traveled to Colorado and Texas A&M. So I think they played 3 defenses that were fairly solid.

I just dont see much of an improvement on the offensive end. I do but I think it's more about have to respect Bradon Ore then anything else. I agree Glennon looked much better later in the year but I still question whether he can beat a team on his own

You make good points about KU's rapid growth but what I like is they continue to be the UNDERDOG despite it all. Also a good point about big game experience which KU has obviously none. Though I caution the amount of big game experience VT has. True the ACC Championship but it was a familiar opponent.

Good stuff and Thanks ! BOL tonight:cheers:

M.R. Goode - Thank You Sir! I am playing mixed in with your research , my initial lean and the possibility of crap weather ...just deciding to go 1st H or game..??


I think this game could be very well like Auburn - Clemson where it was tough to decide and toug to say at the end a play was right or wrong...
 
SportsNut,

Great call on last nite's game.

Do you think the Kansas offense is better than Clemson's?
 
SportsNut,

Great call on last nite's game.

Do you think the Kansas offense is better than Clemson's?

Thanks.

Significantly. Clemson's offense has loads of talent with Davis , Spiller and Kelly . However I just dont ever see it all coming together. When they dropped 70 0n CMU it was the perfect storm.

The games 24 vs FSU all 1st H in the opener less then 300 yds , @ 3 GT , 8 VT till the 4th , 44 WF , 17 BC , 16 @ South Carolina , 20 vs Auburn they offense struggled with the exception of the Wake Forest game. Wake saw a dropoff defensively from last season but was above average.

I think Reesing is one of the guys you cant understand how it does but he just will and he is mobile a plus tonight. James Davis and CJ Spiller can be slowed down ....

BOL:cheers:
 
Sportnut,

Appreciate the response and I like "significantly"; I think I needed someone to hammer home to me that the Kansas offense is actually really good.

I think Harper is better than Reesing; Davis and Stiller are better than McAnderson (sp?) and Kelly is better than any KU wideout, plus their OL is solid. All that being said, the sum of the parts says that KU has the better offense...I agree...just having a difficult time holding that thought when I see all that talent on the Clemson offensive side of the ball, plus a HC that is offensive minded and supposedly gifted in that particular arena.
 
No problem Horses. You guys know alot more about CFB then I do. I sort of prefer the term working knowledge. Stats do lie but I think long term numbers dont. For me its a matter of understanding how and why these numbers were sort of complied. Anyway Good Luck tonight ....

Mr.Goode - Was out playing basketball so I had to sort of rush to decision before cause I wasnt sure if I would be back before kickoff. Anyway played KU +3.5 and took a little less on UND 26 1st H....seems like everyday something keeps me away from these bowl games ....played basketball last nite and couldnt get a play on WVU ML in....what can u do.....BOL

Just saw the missed FG...tough kick considering the weather and it wasnt that bad actually....:cheers:
 
See -4 -120 VT and UND 24-120

Glad I hit my 1st H Under not sure if I middle some of the KU play yet.....
 
Can Kansas continue to score at will or will Vt make the adjustments at half?
Bodog is showing +6 kansas -125
 
Kinda obvious the last VT drive where they just pounded Ore was a concern. Glad it was the 1st thing Mangino addressed. The flip is Kansas then converted a huge 3rd down. So while the KU run defense may be a concern I like how they have defended the pass and still think VT's WRs dont help the QB out. Can VT adjust and stop KU's offense ?? Lean 2nd H over but I can get only get 24.5 would clearly prefer 24....

Still thinking....:cheers:
 
hmmmmmm.....I think Vt scores atleast 2 touchdowns just running the ball, the real question can Kansas keep it up, I thin so.
 
Can Kansas continue to score at will or will Vt make the adjustments at half?
Bodog is showing +6 kansas -125

For anyone I would suggest VaTech or pass. The value of taking a few points with KU up 10 at half is not something I would look for. At times I understand making a 2nd H play on a dog winning SU like WVU yesterday cause they opened it so short they basically tipped there hand ...Here the line is correct and its a roll of the dice......

What makes it tough for VT to adjust is the mobility of reesing. he can turn a busted play into a positive play...

Like I said one of the toughest games to cap . I do question whether KU can hold up but Ore hasnt been a workhorse this season either. Really dont have a strong lean...thinking about middling some and can tell you I owuldnt if I had KU +4 for the game cause I would have the safety net of 2 TDS....:cheers:
 
I understand the logic but I think I would kick the FG. Your defense has played well all game and VT has not been able to score quick. You make it 13 points its basically 2 TDS in about 6 minute.......and again momentum shifts when you dont get it.....
 
Thats another HC I am happy to see succeed !

Kansas 24-21...think the final was alot closer then the game really was....
 
Almost forgot nice hit Troutman. Guess I wish I middled would have hit both.

KU was not lucky to win that game. They blocked a big FG attempt after a bogus VaTech reception. Good call but talk about total luck. We also had KU fuck up the 1st and goal and one would think maybe you review that play? Seemed close enough to try. Mangino was too aggressive he was in FG range and should have focused on making a FG once they were 2nd and goal from the 30. Also he passed on a FG attempt to try 4th and 2 late 4th quarter. So VaTech made there run and KU stepped up on all occassions. Getting a 1st down to run out the half , blocking the game tieing FG and converting a 1st down or two after the onside kick. I agree Beamer's play calling was strange dumping the run game. What did I say earlier today in the other thread about coaches? Beamer will not win this game he will only lose it. Nothing prophetic its just more so we see coaches lose games then win them with there play calling.

be happy for a guy like Mangino who seems like someone who lives the game of football.

A nice day off from CFB to focus on the NFL playoffs. Real uninteresting games especially since Ru vs Ball State is Canada? Does RU want to be there at all?? Ball State can score and that is something I like....who knows though I havent peaked at that game.

KU +3.5 :cheers:
Under 26 1st Half :cheers:

BOL all .......switching gears to the NFL!
 
Good call on the game. Mangino simply outcoached Beamer. That little qb for kansas doesn't have much ability but he makes up for it with heart. kansas was the right side tonight ..... but had i been doing the playcalling it might have been different. hehe.
 
It's funny you say that in college doesnt it seem the kids withtalent are never the best players and the guys like Reesing who get the most out o theres are the ones who win the awards.

I understand being baffled by the playcalling I agree. Guess what I am saying is that KU made some questionable calls that could have tacked ona few more points. Tough to feel bad for VaTech since they never lead. Tough to say based on one drive that VT would have been able to run the ball with the same success in the 2nd H. Maybe the KU defense was taken by suprise and partly tired? Who knows for sure. Abandoning the run was foolish no doubt. Mostly cause it was the only thing that worked. I think more then anything KU showed they belonged....

GL vegaskyle..I know we had different sides and I am not trying to chest pound by any means. I think KU showed it could move the ball on the great VT defense and that there own defense was good....
 
Mr Goode

Sportsnut let me throw in something that might support an under play here. Since 1998 teams that average 32+ and had 40+ days of rest have gone 6-18 ATS (Texas Tech latest victim). These offenses are now out of sync and can't put up their usual numbers. Makes sense to me!
Is this referring to 6-18 ATS or to the under? I know it says ATS but yet you refer to this supporting an under play.
 
You playing these weekend "Manwich" Bowls

what kind of sloppy-joe give you the runs games are these for the weekend anyhow?
 
You playing these weekend "Manwich" Bowls

what kind of sloppy-joe give you the runs games are these for the weekend anyhow?


Last nite I coulnt get into looking at this game and then wokeup late. I may play the 2nd H and will probably play tmrws game.

Here were the keys as I saw:

1- Teels return to health (finally)
2 -inability to stop Ray Rice
3 -Rutgers defense best d they saw outside ILL and only managed 10pts that game.
4 -inability to run the ball well after the starting RB went down
5 -inabilty to score away see Indiana and Ill , plus only 27 @ WMU and @ NILL...

Was thinking this RU would score 31-38 and Bal State 17-24 ...waitin for Half:cheers:
 
Thanks Steed.

24-9 HALF

-5.5 / 31

Ball State's defense has done little to slow RU. A nice INT to save a TD and on 3rd and 3 at the Ball State 40 Ray Rice lost a couple yards and they decided to punt it was a situation where if RU wanted to be agressive it could have went for 4th and 5 from the 42 of BST but why do that when your defensive is playing well and you can pin them??

Ball State has 6 possessions and 3 punts and 3 FGS but really Love setting them up with kick returns has been ther best offense. He set up the 1st FG which was still a tough 47 yder , they had anice drive that stalled and resulted in a FG and then before half the old prevent defense prevented RU from walking off the field with a 24-6 lead as there was no pressure on Davis and to space for the wideouts...

With such a 2nd H number its clear to me they like RU to continue playing this way. To be honest why wouldnt they ? So prefer prefer RU 2nd H and I lean under but think it could push....21-10.....Ball State will have to consume clock it appears to score....and now RU can really lean on Rice....
 
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