Oklahoma State vs TCU Preview Article

VirginiaCavs

CTG Super Moderator
Staff member
Let this week's articles begin.
I know that I am against many on this one. I think there will be some prolific favorites to cover this week no matter how much the line moves on some of these games. But I, by rule, look to bet the (non-public) dog first and I feel like there is a lot of value in TCU and that TCU has a very reasonable chance to cover.

Look Beneath The Flash: Back Underrated TCU to Cover Inflated Spread vs Oklahoma State

In this week's most prolific match-up, #16 TCU (3-0) plays at #6 Oklahoma State (3-0) this Saturday at 3:30 PM ET. TCU looks to avenge last year's 31-6 beating at home. Oklahoma State opened as 10.5 point favorites but that number has been bet up to 13.

Oklahoma State is currently the most hyped team in the nation because they have steamrolled each of their opponents this season by 30+ points. They have beaten two teams outside of the power 5 and a Pittsburgh squad whose abysmal secondary was also missing its best player.

Oklahoma State relies most on its passing attack, led by quarterback Mason Rudolph and his 210 passer rating. When Rudolph has struggled, so has Oklahoma State. Last season, in games where Rudolph's passer rating was less than 150, the Cowboys were 1-3 SU. The one win came against TCU and their anemic offense, which produced only 6 points.

This season, the Cowboys are all the more dependent on Rudolph. They lose three veteran running backs who combined for almost 1,000 yards last season. Last season's Big 12 Freshman of the Year Justin Hill will carry the load this year.

Although the Cowboys lack depth at running back, they have plenty of it at wide receiver. Rudolph can fully profit from his wide receiving corps if the offensive line can improve its pass protection with the help of its returning experience and another new line coach. Oklahoma State's offensive line is experienced, but they were 88th last season in sacks allowed.

Hill helps to balance out the Cowboys' offense, but most of the damage comes from its big passing plays. The Cowboys are sixth in passing yards per attempt this season.
TCU struggled last season in allowing big passing plays. But, TCU's struggle was inevitable. Injuries forced a freshman and even a wide receiver to play expansive roles in the secondary.

TCU's secondary is currently healthy and boasts significant depth and experience. A couple of noteworthy names are seniors Nick Orr at safety and Ranthony Texada at cornerback. Orr was third in the Big 12 with 4 interceptions. He excels in recognizing offensive schemes, reacting to offensive patterns, making plays on the ball and making good decisions in coverage. Texada struggled last season while recovering from knee injuries. But he is a skilled playmaker who, like Orr, boasts the ability to read opposing patterns and make an effective break on the pass.

TCU's deep and talented secondary relies in part on its defensive line, the part of the defense with the most departures. TCU's defensive line is heading in a new direction under the imperative to get bigger. A four-star recruit, redshirt freshman Ross Blacklock is a massive 330 pounder who can engage blockers but also boasts mobility to force the quarterback's pocket to collapse. Matt Boesen achieved 6 sacks last season and is effective at the end position with his speed and explosion. Although this aspect of TCU's defense creates the most worry, so does Oklahoma State's offensive line for the Cowboys' offense. TCU's defensive line has the size and speed to take advantage of Oklahoma State's offensive line.

TCU's defensive line paves the way for its linebacking corps to create havoc, led by leading tackler Travin Howard, who makes up for his lack of size with vision and IQ, strong instincts, and electric speed that makes him lethal in pursuit and dangerous in pass coverage. The Frogs prosper from their depth at linebacker such that they can move versatile athletes like Ty Summers to the defensive end position. Summers is a hard-hitter that typifies TCU's group of linebackers and linemen: not just fast, but also versatile and strong.

Oklahoma State's defense lacks the talent and starting experience of TCU's. They are missing their starting defensive tackles from last season, which includes their best defensive player. They return one starter at linebacker. The secondary also misses its leading tackler. All three groups miss starting experience. While some stars are still in place, adjustments in the secondary and unproven talent create worry.

Oklahoma State's defense has yet to be tested. TCU's quarterback Kenny Hill boasts a career 161 passer rating in September. He has the help of a healthy KaVontae Turpin, who boasts versatility and big-play ability, rising star Jalen Reagor who impresses with his breakaway speed, a deep group of running backs led by Darius Anderson and an experienced offensive line.

The Verdict

TCU Head Coach Gary Patterson, in his 16 years at TCU, had three non-winning seasons. After each one, TCU achieved 10 or more wins. TCU will benefit from staying healthy. Their edge against Oklahoma State is their well-roundedness and experience. TCU boasts formidable athletes in the passing attack but also more depth at running back. Whereas Oklahoma State lost key players in the defense, TCU retains its best athletes and boasts more experience, depth and upside from young contributors.
A look beneath the surface reveals a match-up that is much more even than the line suggests.

NCAAF Pick: TCU +13
 
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I don't really have a choice over when I do these articles. But I agree. Would like to wait out Hicks' injury status and yes of course injuries can happen in practice. I hope this overview is nonetheless informative and enjoyable as bettors figure out how they (eventually) want to play this game.
 
I know that I am against many on this one. I think there will be some prolific favorites to cover this week no matter how much the line moves on some of these games. But I, by rule, look to bet the (non-public) dog first and I feel like there is a lot of value in TCU and that TCU has a very reasonable chance to cover.

Look Beneath The Flash: Back Underrated TCU to Cover Inflated Spread vs Oklahoma State

In this week's most prolific match-up, #16 TCU (3-0) plays at #6 Oklahoma State (3-0) this Saturday at 3:30 PM ET. TCU looks to avenge last year's 31-6 beating at home. Oklahoma State opened as 10.5 point favorites but that number has been bet up to 13.

Oklahoma State is currently the most hyped team in the nation because they have steamrolled each of their opponents this season by 30+ points. They have beaten two teams outside of the power 5 and a Pittsburgh squad whose abysmal secondary was also missing its best player.

Oklahoma State relies most on its passing attack, led by quarterback Mason Rudolph and his 210 passer rating. When Rudolph has struggled, so has Oklahoma State. Last season, in games where Rudolph's passer rating was less than 150, the Cowboys were 1-3 SU. The one win came against TCU and their anemic offense, which produced only 6 points.

This season, the Cowboys are all the more dependent on Rudolph. They lose three veteran running backs who combined for almost 1,000 yards last season. Last season's Big 12 Freshman of the Year Justin Hill will carry the load this year.

Although the Cowboys lack in depth at running back, they have plenty of it at wide receiver. Rudolph can fully profit from his wide receiving corps if the offensive line can improve its pass protection with the help of its returning experience and another new line coach. Oklahoma State's offensive line is experienced, but they were 88th last season in sacks allowed.

Hill helps to balance out the Cowboys' offense, but most of the damage comes from its big passing plays. The Cowboys are sixth in passing yards per attempt this season.
TCU struggled last season in allowing big passing plays. But, TCU's struggle was inevitable. Injuries forced a freshman and even a wide receiver to play expansive roles in the secondary.

TCU's secondary is currently healthy and boasts significant depth and experience. A couple of noteworthy names are seniors Nick Orr at safety and Ranthony Texada at cornerback. Orr was third in the Big 12 with 4 interceptions. He excels in recognizing offensive schemes, reacting to offensive patterns, making plays on the ball and making good decisions in coverage. Texada struggled last season while recovering from knee injuries. But he is a skilled playmaker who, like Orr, boasts the ability to read opposing patterns and make an effective break on the pass.

TCU's deep and talented secondary relies in part on its defensive line, the part of the defense with the most departures. TCU's defensive line is heading in a new direction under the imperative to get bigger. A four-star recruit, redshirt freshman Ross Blacklock is a massive 330 pounder who can engage blockers but also boasts mobility to force the quarterback's pocket to collapse. Matt Boesen achieved 6 sacks last season and is effective at the end position with his speed and explosion. Although this aspect of TCU's defense creates the most worry, so does Oklahoma State's offensive line for the Cowboys' offense. TCU's defensive line has the size and speed to take advantage of Oklahoma State's offensive line.

TCU's defensive line paves the way for its linebacking corps to create havoc, led by leading tackler Travin Howard, who makes up for his lack of size with vision and IQ, strong instincts, and electric speed that makes him lethal in pursuit and dangerous in pass coverage. The Frogs prosper from their depth at linebacker such that they can move versatile athletes like Ty Summers to the defensive end position. Summers is a hard-hitter that typifies TCU's group of linebackers and linemen: not just fast, but also versatile and strong.

Oklahoma State's defense lacks the talent and starting experience of TCU's. They are missing their starting defensive tackles from last season, which includes their best defensive player. They return one starter at linebacker. The secondary also misses its leading tackler. All three groups miss starting experience. While some stars are still in place, adjustments in the secondary and unproven talent create worry.

Oklahoma State's defense has yet to be tested. TCU's quarterback Kenny Hill boasts a career 161 passer rating in September. He has the help of a healthy KaVontae Turpin, who boasts versatility and big-play ability, rising star Jalen Reagor who impresses with his breakaway speed, a deep group of running backs led by Darius Anderson and an experienced offensive line.

The Verdict

TCU Head Coach Gary Patterson, in his 16 years at TCU, had three non-winning seasons. After each one, TCU achieved 10 or more wins. TCU will benefit from staying healthy. Their edge against Oklahoma State is their well-roundedness and experience. TCU boasts formidable athletes in the passing attack but also more depth at running back. Whereas Oklahoma State lost key players in the defense, TCU retains its best athletes and boasts more experience, depth and upside from young contributors.
A look beneath the surface reveals a match-up that is much more even than the line suggests.

NCAAF Pick: TCU +13
 
You will be against the public money in this one and for good reason. I just for the life of me think TCU and Ok State are opposites...usually I would be on the Frogs in this spot as well but think OSU defense is f'n legitimate and we know they'll score. BOL to you regardless, I'm against but looking forward to the first half of this one, it will tell the story.
 
Can I possibly find on this lovely forum of intelligent gentlemen at least one person on my side?:tiphat: Please speak up:cheers3:
 
I think one of the bigger advantages to backing tcu vs some of the other okst opponents so far is that the backdoor could easily be open for tcu to walk through. Not a huge fan of the tcu qb but tulsa and pitt are running teams with questionable qb play in the passing game. They aren't really built for comebacks.
 
I am a fan of Kenny Hill in September. This is the time of year when he is at his best and his wide receiving corps is healthy, too
 
Good article, Cavs. I agree with just about everything in it except I don't trust Hill.

Haven't made up my mind on this one, but it will either be Okla State or pass.
 
I'm am far from a college football expert so forgive me if this question dumb.

You speak pretty highly of tcu secondary but isn't it a little concerning how smu was torching them last week? My square ncaa brain says if smu can put up over 300 in the air that okie st gonna light them up.

I'm not even considering spread all that much, more the total. I like overs in college games where I think the dog can compete.

As always enjoyed reading your write up.
 
I too enjoy your wtite-ups. I may have missed it, but is anyone considering last week to be a look ahead for TCU? I trust Patterson's defensive mindset to come up with a game plan to slow down OKSt. Cowboys look like a feast or famine type "O". Deep routes with timing.

TCU TT over may also get some consideration if you feel the backdoor to be open.
 
I'm am far from a college football expert so forgive me if this question dumb.

You speak pretty highly of tcu secondary but isn't it a little concerning how smu was torching them last week? My square ncaa brain says if smu can put up over 300 in the air that okie st gonna light them up.

I'm not even considering spread all that much, more the total. I like overs in college games where I think the dog can compete.

As always enjoyed reading your write up.

Absolutely zero concern. As books said it was a lookahead game. Another example: Kentucky suffers sluggish start vs EKU, then upsets South Carolina.

Colorado hadn't given up a passing touchdown until they faced North Colorado. That was also a lookahead.
 
I don't agree that the TCU result vs SMU is because of a look-ahead scenario. TCU has zero history of that. 2016 week before Oklahoma beat SMU 33-3. 2015 week before they played their first ranked opponent (Ok St) they beat WVU 40-10 as 14 pt fav. 2014 week before the played Oklahoma beat SMU 56-0.

The fact is that 1) SMU is improving, 2) SMU came out absolutely on fire 3) I believe TCU's intent was to totally take Courtland Sutton out of the game - this allowed other SMU receivers room to produce, and they did.

TCU will not be able to neutralize any singular Ok St receiver because there are 3 other guys waiting to just exploit that strategy.

SMU came out with a flee-flicker fooled the secondary for big SMU first TD, next drive a 30y gain on a short thrown wheel route with no TCU defenders around due to rub (quality play design by SMU), then they did a backwards pass to a WR who then threw deep downfield for another big gain...SMU's opeing game plan was fantastic and they executed it very well. That's not look-ahead, that is just one team being more creative and executing properly vs the other. Then after the 1st qrt and as the game wore on SMU because less efficient, more typical, and their QB play and O struggles were more frequent. By the 2nd half TCU's D was controlling the action. But that was SMU, no reason to think that at any point TCU's D will be controlling action vs Ok St.

The only hope I can see is that the teams mostly trade scores. TCU might be able to force a punt or a FG on occasion, a turnover, sure, I mean they aren't Pitt, but we can't expect TCU O to be perfect on their drives and always cash them for scores either.

I think perhaps more concerning about the SMU game wasn't the amount of yards TCU yielded, but probably the pressure and negative tackles that SMU got on Hill and TCU RBs. You just don't expect that. 3 sacks, 9 TFL (TCU D by comparison registered zero sacks and just 3 TFL). You do expect TCU O to be able to pop many big plays on SMU, and Frogs did that, but SMU was able to get more negative yard plays than anticipated. Maybe it is a fluke. I don't know.

I'm not making a case to bet Ok St, I'd prefer to take my chances with the Frogs as it is more my nature, but I'm not sure I have a side in this game unless the line entices me one way or the other.
 
Another note, I've heard atleast two separate interviews with Mike Gundy where he speaks to the of youth in his secondary as being a potential issue.

Vs Pitt they OSU started Green (Soph) and Williams (rFr) at CB, those two are atop the depth chart this week as well, not sure who their 3rd CB on the field is. They are seasoned at safety so that shouldn't be a concern. Edit - looks like the other two CBs on the depth chart Kearse and Baker are a JUCO and Grad transfer in this year, so Gundy probably doesn't know what he has in them quite yet reinforcing his comments about the secondary. Kearse only played in 1 game last year, the opener vs SeLa.

But that is the key for a TCU bet. Ok St this year has not faced anyone who can challenge them through the air and they may have false sense of security and the coaching staff may not have been able to identify any weaknesses yet because nobody has been able to exploit said weakness yet. That is where TCU needs to excel in the game and that is a reasonable expectation.
 
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Solid info s--k. I'm surprised TCU pursued that strategy against smu considering how much depth they have in their secondary. I think they benefit against ok state by not locking into any one receiver.

The pass rush and havoc in the backfield just took a day off after a solid performance against Arkansas.

If we're doing comparisons, I think OK State's o-line is at least as beatable as that of Arkansas. Obviously the Pokes have a more prolific pass attack. TCU's pass defense will be tested, but they're healthy, extremely talented and well-coached

Maybe it was just an off-day or they had an unlucky half. But s--k, I think you cite history selectively. Week 1 of last season, TCU gave up 41 to South Dakota State before facing Arkansas the week after. OK State would not benefit from underestimating TCU's defense
 
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I thought they would try to limit Sutton's chances, as they may've viewed him as the only legitimate threat and force SMU to do something different, which they did and were able to do well for a while...I just searched trying to find his targets and found this quote:

The Horned Frogs' defense blanketed Sutton with double or even triple coverage for much of the game. On one of the few times he found himself in single coverage with a shot at the end zone, the pass to Sutton was badly overthrown.

In the end, Sutton was targeted seven times, with one reception for zero yards.
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/co...eiver-courtland-sutton-56-36-horned-frogs-win

I would certainly hope that TCU D does not focus on any one OkSt Cowboy receiver because they will get picked apart by the others. We can hope, and assume that Patterson and Co are wise enough to do what is best, but one can never overestimate a coach's ability too much, we see weekly how often those coaches leave us scratching our heads.

Really, I just very much enjoy the dialogue here and am happy to contribute to your preview. I think the Frogs have a better chance on O than on D to get the cover, you might think the D plays a more significant role, either way the end result is what is matters most.

Yeah, I don't know if there was a look ahead, we just could as easily say they took SMU lightly. Both could be true, neither could be true. People like us say things like that after the fact without really knowing where the player's heads were in practice or what kind of practices they had leading up to the game. Sometimes we are right in labeling a game such a way, sometimes not. From my point of view I saw SMU executed at a very high level and perhaps caught the Frogs off guard to open that game and I don't think that would've been any different if TCU had a bye on deck or Oklahoma St.

Good enough.....If anything I'll either sit it out and watch or will be on the Frogs with you.
 
I agree that the psychology is rather speculation and should as such be avoided as much as possible. TCU being caught off guard could be a part of looking ahead or fluke, we could both be right.

I 100% agree with you that TCU's offense can exploit OSU's lack of experience (among other weaknesses) on defense and especially in the secondary.

Between TCU's advantage on defense and their offensive capacity, I think we get a fairly even game whose line is inflated by huge (albeit somewhat justified) Cowboy hype.

It is always solid discussing with you amigo, your being here definitely makes the article-writing more worth it and the amount of intelligent people here is very motivating!
 
Is there a site that lists QB hurries?

I recalled Pitt getting to Rudolph last week, but he would just elude them or get rid of the ball, but Pitt defenders were getting pressure. Looked up the box score and you can count 11 hurries (but just 1 sack) on the individual D player stats. It would be nice to see if some website keeps track of hurries game-to-game, D that is able to create pressure and O that is allowing too much pressure. Just using sacks obviously doesn't tell the whole story.
 
Appreciate all the responses guys. Really feel like everything I'm hearing from ya'll adds up to a over in this one. Which obviously nothing groundbreaking as okie st gets in lot of shootouts!
 
Is there a site that lists QB hurries?

I recalled Pitt getting to Rudolph last week, but he would just elude them or get rid of the ball, but Pitt defenders were getting pressure. Looked up the box score and you can count 11 hurries (but just 1 sack) on the individual D player stats. It would be nice to see if some website keeps track of hurries game-to-game, D that is able to create pressure and O that is allowing too much pressure. Just using sacks obviously doesn't tell the whole story.

I believe ESPN lists QB hurries, check out the ESPN box scores
 
I believe ESPN lists QB hurries, check out the ESPN box scores

Yes you are right they do on the individual D player stats. I was hoping somebody had a season long record of this so one could look back and see what kind of pressure as a team somebody has gotten or allowed vs a given opponent. But for a single game box score from a major site, espn is the only one I've seen that shows that so it is helpful and easier than going to team sites.

Thanks, sorry to derail the thread. Carry on!
 
Line all over the board so obviosly they getting plenty action on both sides

383 TCU @ 384 Oklahoma State
09/23/17 03:30pm
Time
TCU Oklahoma State
09/22/17 02:45:31pm +12½-02 -12½-10
09/22/17 02:45:17pm +12½-03 -12½-09
09/22/17 12:56:31pm +12½-05 -12½-07
09/22/17 01:21:08am +12½-06 -12½-06
09/21/17 05:52:43pm +12½-04 -12½-08
09/21/17 10:11:01am +12½-06 -12½-06
09/20/17 08:04:11pm +14-29 -14+15
09/20/17 07:38:58pm +14-24 -14+10
09/20/17 03:09:42pm +14-17 -14+04
09/20/17 03:09:08pm +14-10 -14-02
09/20/17 03:05:00pm +14-04 -14-08
09/20/17 03:04:49pm +13½+04 -13½-17
09/20/17 03:04:22pm +13½+07 -13½-20
09/20/17 03:04:03pm +13½-00 -13½-12
09/20/17 03:03:49pm +13+02 -13-15
09/20/17 03:03:44pm +13-05 -13-07
09/20/17 03:03:25pm +13-12 -13-00
09/20/17 03:01:46pm +13-11 -13-01
09/20/17 12:05:06pm +13-06 -13-06
09/20/17 12:00:17pm +11+07 -11-20
09/20/17 11:59:29am +11+04 -11-17
09/20/17 11:02:38am +11-02 -11-10
09/20/17 11:01:41am +11-03 -11-09
09/20/17 10:27:36am +11-09 -11-03
09/19/17 02:32:27pm +11-06 -11-06
09/19/17 01:58:53pm +10½-02 -10½-10
09/19/17 01:56:42pm +10½ev -10½-12
09/19/17 12:52:32pm +10½-06 -10½-06
09/19/17 12:51:13pm +11½-12 -11½ev
09/19/17 12:07:24pm +11½-06 -11½-06
09/19/17 12:06:36pm +12-09 -12-03
09/19/17 11:32:16am +12-06 -12-06
09/19/17 11:32:01am +13-08 -13-04
09/19/17 09:20:36am +13-06 -13-06
09/18/17 07:46:24pm +11½ev -11½-12
09/18/17 05:14:17pm +11½-03 -11½-09
09/18/17 02:55:27pm +11½-06 -11½-06
09/18/17 02:54:56pm +12-13 -12+01
09/18/17 02:12:39pm +12-06 -12-06
09/18/17 02:11:57pm +11½-06 -11½-06
09/18/17 02:10:57pm +11-03 -11-09
09/18/17 10:50:52am +11-06 -11-06
09/18/17 10:50:35am +11-02 -11-10
09/18/17 10:50:28am +11-06 -11-06
09/18/17 10:50:22am +12½-16 -12½+03
09/18/17 10:50:16am +12½-10 -12½-02
09/17/17 07:50:24pm +12½-06 -12½-06
Totals
09/22/17 08:22:17pm 71 Over -104 Under -110
09/22/17 01:41:51pm 71 Over -107 Under -107
09/22/17 01:41:42pm 71½ Over -104 Under -110
09/21/17 11:15:38am 71½ Over -105 Under -109
09/21/17 10:11:24am 71½ Over -107 Under -107
09/21/17 04:28:38am 71 Over -111 Under -103
09/21/17 12:21:12am 71 Over -118 Under +103
09/21/17 12:05:28am 71 Over -110 Under -104
09/20/17 11:07:45pm 71 Over -108 Under -106
09/20/17 09:24:58pm 71 Over -105 Under -109
09/20/17 09:09:26am 71 Over -108 Under -106
09/19/17 08:59:37pm 68½ Over -140 Under +122
09/19/17 07:39:41pm 68½ Over -130 Under +113
09/19/17 07:38:07pm 68½ Over -121 Under +106
09/19/17 07:37:49pm 68½ Over -119 Under +104
09/19/17 04:34:09pm 68½ Over -117 Under +102
09/19/17 01:53:11pm 68½ Over -110 Under -104
09/19/17 09:20:50am 68½ Over -107 Under -107
 
Really need TCU after my hope for containing Colorado's receiving corps just went down the drain

:angryoldman::thumbsdown3:
 
Don't like to boast period especially after bad morning play and will never put anyone down

But i gotta say i got a lot of garbage on this (not on ctg of course) where my article was published i got some dismissive comments which are rare.

So this is satisfying. Non-sexy teams are the way to go. Like san diego on the road in college basketball
 
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