OK, Birds vs. Giants - Rd. 3

Joe Public

Gabibbo's Finest
As an Eagle fan, this matchup both excites me and worries me.

As has been said before, but cannot be said enough, thank you Plex for shooting yourself right out of this season. Even with Asante Samuel out there and maybe the best secondary in the NFC, the Eagles still can't cover Plex. He's too big and he feels invincible against the Birds. Only and until there's a Ray Lewis on Eddie George moment will that dynamic change.

But without him, the Eagles can single up the Giants' WRs and play straight man. This is a good thing because they're going to need the extra help to stop Brandon Jacobs.

Make no mistake, the Eagles won the last meeting, the Giants didn't lose it. In fact, if you watched that game, you know the Giants were never really in it save for the blocked FG. They never got anything going offensively, but that's mostly and almost exclusively because the Birds didn't have to respect them offensively. They could play man on the WRs and they could send blitzers all day because without Jacobs there wasn't enough of a threat in the backfield. So Eli was kind of f**ked. And when he makes bad choices against the Eagles they almost always, historically, make him pay.

That won't happen tomorrow. The Giants will be a much tougher out because Jacobs will get yards.

Personally I think this game comes down to a couple of things, mostly falling on both QBs.

Can Donovan/Eli make enough plays on third down to move the chains. Secondarily, whose TEs will have the better day. In the past you'd look for LJ Smith to potentially have a good day tomorrow. But he seems to have totally lost the confidence of the team, for what reason I don't know, but he was a healthy scratch last week.

So that means Brent 'Don't Call Me Tom' Celek vs. Kevin Boss (who I'm assuming is healthy). Guy who has the better day is likely on the winning team.

Because the Giants will do everything they can to shadow Westbrook. He'll still probably get his, but I'd be surprised if he dominates the game the way he did a month ago.

My feeling on the game goes like this. Donovan plays his normally frustrating playoff game on the road. Occasionally making plays (look for how many times he goes to Avant tomorrow, that guy's becoming his safety valve), but occasionally almost killing drives single-handedly. The Giants run the ball, Eli makes some plays, and it comes down to the 4th quarter. If Donovan can get the Eagles to 20 points, I think they have a good chance to win the game.

I do think the Eagles will try to run. I think they'll use both Westbrook and Buck, and I don't think they'll give up on it and solely rely on Donovan.

But Runyan is dinged up and the team here that's going to run well, by all rights, should be NY. That should make for a more plodding pace.

These teams know each other so well, I look for a game that ends up 20-17, 23-20, 17-14, something like that.

My guess is that the Giants win, but I will not be surprised at all if the Eagles pull it off.

If I could get seven I'd take it. I would not lay more than three with the Giants. I've teased the Eagles to 10, would tease the total up rather than down, though both might hit.

I will bet the Eagles very small on the ML, trying to get as close to +190 or +200 as a I can because I think this is a FG game either way.

Go Birds.

Good luck tomorrow everybody.
 
They never got anything going offensively, but that's mostly and almost exclusively because the Birds didn't have to respect them offensively.

Agree with the 1st part of the sentence but not the rest. Philly beat them 100% but the Giants also have this thing where their WRs cant catch the ball in the swirling winds at the Meadowlands ...didnt Hixon have the easy TD that went right through his hands ? Plus NYG was 11-1 winners of 7 straight at that point . They didnt overlook Philly by any means but they were winning vs some tough opponents shorthanded for a long stretch IMO.

In his place, Domenik Hixon dropped a 50-yard pass right in his hands with New York trailing 3-0 in the first half.

Hixon, who had been outstanding in filling in for Burress on three other occasions, dropped the long pass moments after Akers kicked a 51-yarder on the final play of the first quarter.
Rookie safety Kenny Phillips missed a third-down tackle early on a 77-yard drive that Westbrook ended with a 30-yard run on a play that first appeared to be stuffed at the line.
Even the sure-handed Steve Smith dropped a fourth-down pass on play from the Eagles 42.
Even when the Giants scored on the blocked field goal, there were mistakes. Pierce was called for two penalties that kept the drive moving.

NY had their chances but didnt make them and they lost Ross in the 1st Quarter and Jacobs in the 3rd Quarter as well ...

Eli 13/27 123 yds and last time the wind was that bad ???? Dec , 16th 2007 vs Wash ...

Manning had a horrible night, completing 18-of-52 for 184 yards in a game in which his receivers dropped at least eight passes.
“It wasn’t a day where you wanted to throw the ball a whole lot, but we’ve got to be able to throw better than we did today,” said Manning, whose 34 incompletions were the most since Joe Namath had 36 in a game against Denver in 1967. “We’ve got to be able to execute better.”
The biggest drop was by veteran Amani Toomer late in the third quarter with New York trailing 22-10.
Manning had hit rookie Kevin Boss with a 19-yard touchdown pass on the previous series and he found Toomer wide open around midfield with a wind-whipped wobbly pass. With no one around him, the Giants’ all-time leading receiver dropped the certain touchdown.
The drive eventually ended with Lawrence Tynes missing a 38-yard field goal and New York never threatened again...

I think the game is a coin flip as Philly has played better the last month then NYG has . One factor that we should remember is that everytime the Giants were disrespected or counted out this season they won . Once people started believing it seemed thats when they struggled but I think as Eagle fan you know how this Giants team has literally met every challenge it faced so far . They were buried so many times and they always showed up ...

I think the Eagles are getting way to much credit lately...even the Vikes game read that they missed a hold on Westbrook's TD ..getting to much credit and being good are entirely different things but think the Eagles play has been largely a result of right place , right time ...:cheers:






 
I think the game is a coin flip

Agreed. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Giants either covering or losing outright based on one play, probably some time in the 3rd quarter or early 4th. Otherwise, I think it's right at a FG either way.
 
I think I would take my chances getting the 4 in this game. Phila +4 sounds pretty safe...I also like the dog in the later gameS.D.+6.....in this round of the playoffs I think the games are played tougher & tighter......getting points is a gift.....
 
What to make of the Birds winning 5 of their last 8 at the Meadowlands? Seems like they (and Donovan specifically) should have quite a bit of confidence that they can win tomorrow. I was one of the guys who took Minny last week and my perception of Philly has not changed much (agree with SN for the most part that recent success if largely due to right place, right time), but isn't this game another case of that scenario? I mean catching the Giants down a half dozen starters or so from last season in the swirling winds of the Meadowlands where the result of the game could hinge on one big play. Which team is more capable of coming up with that one big play? I think it is the Eagles (Samuel, Jackson, Westbrook are all candidates). What impressed me most last week against Minny was that they got production from all three phases of the game with the defense scoring and special teams providing good field position. It is going to be tough to bet against the Giants tomorrow, but how many people (outside of NY) really expected this team to repeat? I didn't, and this is as good of a spot as any for them to lose.
 
I picked Balto & Caro on the pool to go to the S.B....I have a feeling it just might be Phila & Pitts....don't forget the last time the Phillies won the World Series in 1981 the Eagles went to the S.B. & lost...maybe it's McNabb's big come back & win this year & he won't pull a loss like Jaws did or vomit on the field.....my city will go super nuts....winning both championships......
 
I think the game is a coin flip

Agreed. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Giants either covering or losing outright based on one play, probably some time in the 3rd quarter or early 4th. Otherwise, I think it's right at a FG either way.

I know you did and I forgot to acknowledge that was flipping back to the NBA earlier . Basically just agree leaning NYG by 7 points at the moment ..( 6 or 7 points that is ) but could just as easily see Philly winning here ...the Giants offense almost always struggles vs Philly ..:cheers:
 
What to make of the Birds winning 5 of their last 8 at the Meadowlands? Seems like they (and Donovan specifically) should have quite a bit of confidence that they can win tomorrow. I was one of the guys who took Minny last week and my perception of Philly has not changed much (agree with SN for the most part that recent success if largely due to right place, right time), but isn't this game another case of that scenario? I mean catching the Giants down a half dozen starters or so from last season in the swirling winds of the Meadowlands where the result of the game could hinge on one big play. Which team is more capable of coming up with that one big play? I think it is the Eagles (Samuel, Jackson, Westbrook are all candidates). What impressed me most last week against Minny was that they got production from all three phases of the game with the defense scoring and special teams providing good field position. It is going to be tough to bet against the Giants tomorrow, but how many people (outside of NY) really expected this team to repeat? I didn't, and this is as good of a spot as any for them to lose.

Good stuff . I can say I dont think NYers believed in this team early either . No Strahan , Gibril Wilson had left , then Kiwaunka gets hurt ....the whole plax situation even before the season started...

I just think Minny you have to remember was still without Pat Williams and had some banged up other key players .

By no means would I say jump on the Giants but with 2 SU dog wins already , the past 3 years Home teams I think going at least 2-2 each season , could be time to start thinking of its a coin flip the home team catches the needed break ..
 
There are also two other things that are key to this game that are different from the game vs. minny last week. First, T-Jack doesn't play for the Giants. I know Manning has had some clunkers against Philly over the years, but this is huge, as Jackson handed Philly 10 easy points last week. Also, special teams will be a big factor, and minny's special teams is one of the worst units in the league, giving up 6 or 7 scores this year. They are absolutely horrible. The Giants are much better in that area which should prevent philly from having the short field as often as they did last week in MN.

I won't even go into the coaching factor since it's so obvious. Just my $.02.
 
Just look at Reggie Bush and the GB games for a glimpse into Minny's ST if you dont realize this.disaster they call SPecial teams ..yikes ! good point bro ...very good point ...
 
Also as of now wind a minor factor at 6 MPH .

Here is another one that I forgot to mention since P-Unit had the brillant call . He got the cobwebs out of my brain. How bout David Akers kicking at the Meadowlands ...That has been a HUGE ISSUE in the past ...
 
From the Philly newspaper .......

"I never do any of that stuff," Eagles kicker David Akers, who has fared worse at Giants Stadium than any other NFL venue, said yesterday, when asked if he'd been checking on the weather. The two makes and two blocks from the Birds' Dec. 7 victory there, in winds above 20 mph, made Akers' N.J. field goal tally 11-for-22 lifetime. "Maybe check it once or twice, see what's happening, kind of laugh at it, but for the most part, you can't control it . . . I'm going to get in and do what I can to make the kicks when I'm called upon."

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/spo...weather_any_conditions_at_Giants_Stadium.html
 
Nut, Bill Cowher mentioned that in the pre-game or halftime of the tenny game. He said Akers was a career 50% kicker in NY while 83% overall for his career. Very good point.

I just think overall that philly won't be able to run the ball tomorrow. They had a hell of a time against the vikes and I think the Giants lack of stoutness against the run is made up by better coaching/schemes. I was at the game and philly's run game just didn't impress me, especially since teams started to have some success running against minny after Pat Williams was injured.

I don't know. Maybe I have the wrong read on this game, but I just don't think you can win on the road if you can't run the ball effectively.
 
I know this is not solid reasoning, but I just can't get over the fact that it is so tough to get to the Super Bowl in back to back seasons. The Pats in '04 and '05, Denver in '98 and '99, Dallas, Buff and SF in the late '80's - early '90s. With the possible exception of Denver, these are all dynasty-type teams, and Denver was clearly the best team in the AFC those couple years. I just don't see this Giants team as a dynasty-type team, especially with all the injuries and no Plax.
 
I know this is not solid reasoning, but I just can't get over the fact that it is so tough to get to the Super Bowl in back to back seasons. The Pats in '04 and '05, Denver in '98 and '99, Dallas, Buff and SF in the late '80's - early '90s. With the possible exception of Denver, these are all dynasty-type teams, and Denver was clearly the best team in the AFC those couple years. I just don't see this Giants team as a dynasty-type team, especially with all the injuries and no Plax.

Thats a fair point I think . My response would be the fact that I agree that NYG is not that destiny type team makes more likely then less likely then get back to the SB. All the above teams had high expectations to meet and probably were overvalued in some sense while now NYG still no one believes in them. I also think Arizona could beat either of them at the moment because they just seem to want ti so bad and right now Warner still throws it better then anyone and well Fitzgerald is just ridiculous . That early jumpball just sucked and Carolina defended it fairly well and he still caught it ....soits no given IMO that the winner here wins the NFC..

Just playing devil's advocate but I do believe because there is less hype around NYG that there chances are better to get back. Especially when we look at the fact all things considered they still are as slightily better then the remaining teams and have homefield...

:shake:
 
There are also two other things that are key to this game that are different from the game vs. minny last week. First, T-Jack doesn't play for the Giants. I know Manning has had some clunkers against Philly over the years, but this is huge, as Jackson handed Philly 10 easy points last week. Also, special teams will be a big factor, and minny's special teams is one of the worst units in the league, giving up 6 or 7 scores this year. They are absolutely horrible. The Giants are much better in that area which should prevent philly from having the short field as often as they did last week in MN.

I won't even go into the coaching factor since it's so obvious. Just my $.02.

These are great points, and the reasons why I said earlier that my perception of Philly has not changed much since that game. The Minny game was probably more about Minny than it was about Philly, but Philly was in the right place, right time and their playmakers made plays for them. If Philly wins tomorrow, it may be more about what the Giants are lacking. BTW, Aikers was 2/4 in this year's game - consistent with his career #s.
 
These are great points, and the reasons why I said earlier that my perception of Philly has not changed much since that game. The Minny game was probably more about Minny than it was about Philly, but Philly was in the right place, right time and their playmakers made plays for them. If Philly wins tomorrow, it may be more about what the Giants are lacking. BTW, Aikers was 2/4 in this year's game - consistent with his career #s.

You are right. Philly made the plays when it counted, and that does go a long way. They are playing with a passion and a swagger that I haven't seen out of them since their SB season. Should be a good one tomorrow. Nice way to start the day!
 
The question for me isn't so much, will the Birds be able to run, I think they will have limited success with that at best. The question will be can they bring back some of the screens that tend to kill the Giants.
 
Giants finish to the reg. season

lost to Philly
lost to Dallas
needed a miracle to beat Carolina (Jacobs played)
lost to Minny (inconsequential, but should have won)

....

Look at how Dallas finished their season after their Giants win.

Carolina blew a 20 point lead to Nawlins and needed late heroics to win that game, and now we just saw them dismantled by a team who hadn't won on the East Coast previously this season.


What have you done for me lately Giants that's anywhere near impressive?
The answer is nothing.
 
As an aside, when all those primetime games were going Over and (more so) being covered by the Fav in the last few weeks of the reg. season, I thought to myself, there'll be a backlash to all these popular results in the playoffs.

Reality is obliging so far.
 
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/playbook/20090109_Eagles-Giants_scouting_report.html

Only thing BetCrimes is your leaving out the injuries were mounting and the team was 11-1 on the season with 4 extremely tough games on deck Philly , @ Dallas , Carolina , @ Minnesota ...essentially 4 of the 5 top NFC teams not named NYG...mix in the 4-0 playoff run and at some point something had to give. If they were 100% healthy I would say okay but they showed me at Minny they were back. Look at how Tenny showed up in their meaningless game losing 23-0 @ Indy and Vikes needed a last second FG to win by 1 point .

I think what is reality here is NYG was 15-1 L16 games until December and not only had the gun incident with Plax and Pierce but battled several injuries to DT's , DB's , OL and RB's....at some point after going 15-1 and overcoming insane obstacles there had to be a bump in the road . They didnt play poorly at either Dallas or at Minny and beat Carolina so nothing to get down about IMO at some point they had to show they were not the most indestructable force in the NFL. Just like Arizona figured it out in the 2nd H of the reg season finale and look where its taking them. NYG IMO in the 2nd H vs Carolina and @ Minnesota showed they were back ...the same arguement was used for Arizona and where are they now ? NYG is a better position rested and healed at 12-4 then if they went 14-2 ....

Just my take but the last month look is disregarding the events of the previous 16 games ...:cheers:
 
Giants finish to the reg. season

lost to Philly
lost to Dallas
needed a miracle to beat Carolina (Jacobs played)
lost to Minny (inconsequential, but should have won)

....

Look at how Dallas finished their season after their Giants win.

Carolina blew a 20 point lead to Nawlins and needed late heroics to win that game, and now we just saw them dismantled by a team who hadn't won on the East Coast previously this season.


What have you done for me lately Giants that's anywhere near impressive?
The answer is nothing.

That is the biggest reason I won't be playing the G-Men large tomorrow if I do play them. Hot teams tend to do well in the playoffs. Philly is one of the hottest teams in the league right now, and deservedly so. Since McNabb was benched, he has been a man posessed and their defense has been all over the place. I was very impressed with their speed on the DL last week in minny. I don't know his name, but that #75 for Philly has some serious wheels.

Shit, could I be more on the fence or what! :smiley_acbe:
 
I won't say that the Giants took the last Eagles' game off, they were beat plain and simple, but I do think that they were being smart with Jacobs. In his case I do think they were thinking longer term just to be safe. So, again, you have to throw out some of that game based on his absence.

I also think that the Giants game against Minny speaks a lot about the team. They had nothing to play for and they fought out a win. I think they're ready for the playoffs.
 
Curious if it concerns any of you G-Men backers (Nut) that the Underdog is now 9-1 ATS in the last 10 Divisional playoff games? The Dogs went 4-0 in 2007, 3-1 in 2008 and 2-0 so far this year. Don't you think this could be due to the bye week teams being a little rusty or out of sync? or maybe there is a perception (public) that the bye week teams are much better then the wild-card week teams and thus creating value in the dog (see arizona).
 
They didnt play poorly at [either] Dallas

I disagree. One of the rare games I got to watch live, and if Dallas wasnt so horrible they'd have done to the Giants what the Eagles in turn did to them 2 weeks later (didnt help them Romo got injured in the first half of that game).
 
im curious as to why everyone is counting out the giants. no one expected them to win the superbowl last year.

this year after winning something like 15 straight they still get no respect? they are the nfc patriots........ winning with injuries.
 
you guys are nuts, let me phrase it this way you have a defending SB champion with a week off playing at home where they were 7-1 this past year. You have a team when it was on went into its opponents house and won (referring to Gmen victory). You have a healthy running back which you did not have last time, which btw is where their offense begins.

you give me champs who know how to win and set a line like -4 and most of the world is on the underdog. Doesn't this seem obvious are is my Giants bias setting in. Was hoping id see -3 after both underdogs won today. From everything I have read and heard Philly should be favored by 6-7. LAst game Philly was incredible i mean INCREDIBLE on 3rd and long. Not 3rd and 1 but 3rd and 8 or 9. Defense never got off the field, will they repeat that, doubt it. Im nervous the way any team's fan should be but at the same point give the team some respect they aint no johnny come latelys and they know what they have to do.

I will go so far as saying if the turnover battle is equal or Giants advantage I would be shocked if the giants lost. Now manning throws 2 pick 6's like the saying goes any given sunday.
 
lastly what is the anemic Eagles offense will most likely show its head today. They scored 44 against the cowgirls because of defense. McNabbs "resurgence" is more the defense being opportunistic then any dramatic shift in the Philly offense since the Cincy game. So what is hot is this Philly defense. Will that be enough or will they need this offense? If they need the offense to be able to put up 17+ on this defense i like my chances as a Giants fan.
 
They didnt play poorly at [either] Dallas

I disagree. One of the rare games I got to watch live, and if Dallas wasnt so horrible they'd have done to the Giants what the Eagles in turn did to them 2 weeks later (didnt help them Romo got injured in the first half of that game).

All true I only meant it was still a game very late in the 4th Quarter . Didnt mean to imply NY played well .

Personally I just cant take the last month seriously at some point they had to falter they had 6 good wins in a row including 4 away and were beginning to look invincible . Thats just my take but as we all agree basically a coin flip :cheers:
 
Would agree with Mets in regard to Philly supposedly being the hottest team in the league ...

played Zona at home on a short week which also happened to be Thanksgiving and Zona was off loss to NYG , played Dallas who was dead man walking after losing to Balt at home IMO as no team who lost a clinch game in week 16 won in week 17 , so they won @ 11-1 NYG who was off wins @ Wash , @ ARI , Balt , @ Philly , Dallas , and @ Pitt in the previous 6 , beat Cle at home with Dorsey , Lost @ Wash 10-3 , and won @ Minnesota without Pat Williams and only led by 2 late and were helped by defensive scores and ST plays which might not be there vs NYG.....

Like NYG obviously buy Philly does scare me .......
 
I dont think by any stretch NY lied down or didnt take Philly seriously in the rematch . They just had 6 wins vs big teams and 4 were on the road plus the Plax situation was happening . It wasnt the distraction so much but more the last thing they needed at the time type event ....
 
Personally I just cant take the[ir] last month seriously

I hear what you're saying, but their problem now is resuscitating their effort after playing unconsciously from the early/mid-point of last season to late this season. Once the energy goes out of such a run - for any team in any sport (look at the Celtics since their 19 win streak ended, look at the Patriots after they should've lost to Baltimore last season) - it's almost impossible to ressurrect it to what it was. They're simply not hot now. Philly is. That recent match-up is far less imformative than that fact.
 
With so many people on the fence, it makes me ask, why is everyone so bent on playing the game? Personally, I think the line is perfect, it's an obvious no-play.

14-10 Giants.
 
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