MWC Conference Ratings...

horses

Brady licks Marino's knob
I mentioned yesterday that I would post my ACC rankings but I found a couple things that I didn't like about them that I want to go back and look at...

Therefore, I will post the conference I follow very closely; I know there are questions about how people develop these...myself, I initially identify the best and worst team in the conference and work on developing a point spread for those two teams if they played in week 1; once I do that, I begin to fill in the gaps like a puzzle. Yes, I am a college football nerd.

Here are my MWC rankings; no SDSU homerism here:

BYU 100
Utah 98'
TCU 96'
Wyo 87'
UNLV 87'
NM 87
AF 86
SDSU 80'
CSU 80'

my comments: yes, the MWC has become the big 3 and everyone else; BYU, TCU and Utah are all teams capable of competing in a BCS conference (not winning it, but holding their own). The other teams are really fighting for 4th place. UNLV is probabably a tad high for some; I will drop them like a rock into the ocean if they show any ineptitude against Utah St out of the gate.

your comments: would love to hear them. Realize this is a conference a lot may feel uncomfortable commenting on, but then feel free to ask questions if you have them. Naturally, I also hope that JPicks and VK pop in here and throw in their thoughts.

:shake:
 
good shit here horses.

hard to really have any disagreement with any of these rankings. Wyoming is not a team I was expecting to be 4th but I have only gone over the Big 3 from this conference so far. How is their QB going to be this year? Do they not have a transfer coming in? Little sketched out about this team but respect their home turf
 
ETG, really, teams 4 thru 7 are very tight, but I put Wyoming in the top end because they should have solid OL/DL's and I put a little extra value on that position group as well as QB. Karsten Sween is the Qb but they have a new OC and he is being challenged by two others...a senior and a Rfr. Here is a blurb describing their change in offensive philosophy (straight from sportsline):

2008 OUTLOOK: Coach Joe Glenn's confidence in the offense stems from the experience he now has on the offensive line. That, coupled with the implementation of a tight end and fullback, will allow the Cowboys a chance to control the football with their running attack. If they can do that, their defense stands a better chance of not wearing down like it has the past two seasons while still managing to finish in the top 25. How well Wyoming can make the transition to a physical running team could determine whether it can return to a bowl game for the first time since 2004.
SCOUTING THE OFFENSE
"All we needed were some birthdays," Glenn says of a line that now will start two seniors, two juniors and a sophomore. He says an improved line will limit the number of seven-step, downfield throws Wyoming's QBs have tried the last two seasons to make the offense go. An improved line should benefit Wynel Seldon more than Devin Moore. Seldon is the between-the-tackles runner. Moore's benefit will come if and when defenses have to stack the line of scrimmage to stop the run and he has more chances to make chunks of yardage around the edges in the open field.
 
Not sold on Wyomings offensive line. Sure they have all 5 starters back and the entire 2 deep, but to be honest they weren't good last year. #85 in the nation in sacks allowed and it didn't get better as the year went along. In fact they gave up 13 sacks over their last 4 games which was above their 2.5 avg for the year. Supposedly the new OC is going to have a shorter passing game versus last years hail mary approach which should cut down the sack #'s. I think they could easily go 3-5 in conference. With games @NM, @TCU, and @BYU their best hope is 5-3 and I don't think they have a good enough line or QB to get that done.

Agree 100% with your thoughts about UNLV. I like them quite a bit and was actually pissed to see Steele have them in his top 4 in the league. If they start out 1-3 or 1-4 all bets are off. They'll probably turn on Sanford in a flash if ship starts sinking.
 
Alright , I don't mind sharing my opinions as you all know. Some slight differences between how i see this conference panning out. First difference would be that I think Utah and BYU are basically EVEN. I would rate them both at 100. If they played the byu at utah game tomorrow , i would be all over the utes. The reason being that BYU has to replace a ton of players on defense , and yes .... they are older more mature replacements than most programs get ( thank you missions ) but even then they have two young guys they are plugging into the defensive backfield. That byu team is just replacing too many guys. Now, they are lucky enough that they dont have to play utah until around thanksgiving or thereabouts. By then , those inexperienced defensive players might have matured and the utah qb might do his normal injury trick by then. Utah fits almost all my criteria for a team that should have success. 1. they return a stud qb in brian johnson. 2. they return a talented offensive line. this team pounded people last year and now they basically bring the whole line back , moving taylor to center. These utes are friggin huge. they are going to pound you and with johnson mobility , wow ... gonna be tough team to defend all year. 3. Their defensive line is formed properly. They have two VERY solid defensive ends returning and they have HUGE defensive tackles to plug up the middle. 4. They have the best defensive backfield in the conference. They are returning 33 starts from last year with the 11th ranked pass defense in the country.
If utah gets anything at all out of their linebackers , forget it. I think next year the sylvester kid might be the best linebacker in the conference and if he can improve even more than we would think he would this year , then he could really shore up that linebacking unit. 5. This team will get the hidden yards and points. The kicker/punter is awesome. Result will be a much higher percentage of made kicks for them and a lot more field switching punts. 6. coaching

Alright now that i have finished my utah is pretty frigging good rant. tcu i have slightly lower than you. I want them to prove to me that those major losses on the dl can be replaced and that dalton can really go a full game without making a dumb play that will be seen on sportscenter that night. we arent far apart there though.

You guys might be drinking the koolaid with unlv. I have heard this rebel song and dance before , and while the dance is sometimes entertaining the song is always a country song ... we dont lost just games , we lose wives, dogs , trains , pride. Why is this team that much better than last year ?? I am going to use the word "we" to describe unlv because i am a fan, for those whose sensibilities are offended by this ... F u.
We lose an incredible amount of talent on defense for a unlv team.
unlv secondary --We lsot everyone who showed anything last year ... everyone. Our best guy in the secondary was a safety named tony cade who transferred in from oklahoma. mil'von james was our version of a shutdown corner who transferred in from ucla , he is gone. Our most talented db that was to return for '08 was Horton and he transferred out of the school. And that leaves us with the guy who showed repeated problems last year back there as out only returning starter really ( pointers sucks but i guess he started alot ), that being forte. Forte was great in run support but questionable in coverage. And thats the rub. At unlv we don't get the ucla , oklahoma type recruits so to lose that type of talent is going to really kill us. It is NOT a coincidence that unlv had one of its better years agaisnt the pass last year.... it was a result of better talent than we normally have transferring in. No such luck this time.
unlv linebacking --We are ok here. Miller is solid and fuimaono is capable but shit ,.... Beau bell is playing in cleveland now ( grats steed ) and his ability to diagnose a play and use his speed in pursuit covered a lot of holes for our defense last year ... expecting the rebels to be better at this position just isn't feasible. Would like to be wrong but i don't think it will happen.
dl -- ok our dl will be pretty damn solid this year compared to last few years but not by much.

When i did my defensive unit rankings ....... unlv doesnt have a single defensive lineman in my top 6 in conference , a single linebacker in my top 6 in conference or a single db in my top six in conference. How the hell is this defense going to succeed or be improved. You have to have a lot of faith that the rebel offense can get the job done. We were 111th in the nation in scoring last year. Yes , some of that was because we had qb injuries and travis dixon couldnt throw the ball more accurately than half of CTG and couldn't read a defense if it was an open picture book. Omar clayton is going to start for us and he is an upgrade but lets be real gang. And while a lot of the locals like Frank summers because he has the cool "frank the tank" nickname, he hasn't shown much. He is big and tough and he will break some tackles and probably have over 1k yards rushing this year , but he doesnt have any speed or elusiveness in him at all. The fact that peeples didnt get more carries last year as a junior with summers as a feature back tells me all i need to know about him. He will always look to bounce the ball outside anyway and that isn't how our offense is designed. We are loaded at wr but i dont trust clayton enough to deliver the ball. He was alright last year when given the chance but was throwing an interception about 1 in every 20 times he dropped back to throw. brutal.

Now , how in the world can we expect unlv to finish fourth in the conference ?? We have lost 15 of our last 16 road games. The win was against a juggernaut ( see my avatar ) to open last season. How do we win road games this year ??? here is who we face
At utah -- wow , major revenge to go along with talent msimatch
at arizona state -- ouch
at colorado st -- one of col states more winnable games and i make them the favorite there.
at byu -- ouch , that pass attack against our secondary will be an ugly ass stomping of epic proportions.
at sdsu -- alright we have a chance there. losing coach might be out of a job.

For unlv to come in fourth we have to win EVERY winnable game. utah st , home to iowa st , home to nevada , at col st , home to air force, home to new mexico , home to wyoming , and home to sdsu. The only game where unlv will be favored by more than a field goal is utah state opener. Just too much to ask.


We have not won two consecutive games in the same season since 2004.

I will believe it when i see it.

just another thing to throw at ya ... but we have major major issues at the two kicking positions this year. From what i have heard it didnt look good in the spring. Arroyo was awesome for us and will be impossible to replace this year.

So , i disagree about unlv. prove it . prove it . prove it.
 
Last edited:
I actually am a believer in Wyoming. Haven't finished the conference yet, still have to analyze SDSU and NM, but as of now I have the Pokes a clear cut 4th.

I am decidedly NOT a UNLV believer, although I think they will beat the shit out of the Aggies in a really severe way. Other than their offensive skill guys I really don't see anything all that special. I think their OL will be OK not great, and their defense only generated 22 sacks with Geathers. Not sure if Pili is going to start or not, but the knock on him when he was here at Oregon is that he doesn't put enough pressure in the backfield and is mostly just a run defender sort of like an end in the 3-4 would be.
 
Well one of two things was learned in the spring with unlv. Either our offensive line is not very good or our dl is very improved. The DL was the standout unit of the spring.

I also have wyoming as a clear cut 4th.

new mexico looks pretty bad on paper compared to unm teams the last few years.

sdsu is sdsu.

i have colorado state rated slightly better than unlv. Here is my order of quality and how i project their conference record by pr with hfa , giving the favorite the nod every time. ...

BYU 7-1
UTAH 8-0
TCU 6-2
Wyoming 4-4
new mexico 3-5
air force 3-5
colorado state 2-6
unlv 1-7
sdsu 2-6
 
Excellent thoughts in here guys; just what I was hoping for.

At this point, I'll take Glenn's word that the OL will be improved. JPicks makes some good points, and for whatever reason, the Cowboys have faded down the stretch the last couple of years, and that includes giving up a higher proportion of sacks. I don't see how the sacks don't come down with the new offense.

Great post VK; one thing I gotta say though is that I don't even consider a teams schedule when making my power ratings...in fact, it is the farthest thing from my mind when I am handicapping teams individually. From my perspective, a team can be the 4th best team in the conference, but finish lower just based on the way the conference schedule is laid out...

Yes, I may be drinking too much UNLV Kool-Aid to start the year, as I would have them as RF's vs two conference opponents. However, like I said in my initial post, if they don't dominate Utah St, I am very likely to lower them to a point where they wouldn't be RF's against SDSU and CSU. From an SDSU standpoint, I just don't know how they're going to score much at all...esp to start the season.
 
Great post VK; one thing I gotta say though is that I don't even consider a teams schedule when making my power ratings...in fact, it is the farthest thing from my mind when I am handicapping teams individually.

i dont either. i ordered them by power rating and then put to the side how many times my pr and hfa make them a favorite in conference play.

believe me , a lot of me wants to believe that the rebels are as good as steele , you and jpicks think they will be.
 
BAR,

I would say it is adjusted a little bit; it may not even be noted by the casual observer or those that don't witness to many cowboy football games. However, with less 7 step drops and more quick passes, I would expect less sacks and a higher completion percentage from Sween (or whoever beats him out). I would also expect a higher ratio of running plays since the strength of the offense appears to be the RB's and OL. whether they cut down on the Int's is problematic, but I think Glenn will go with the guy that keeps mistakes to a minimum.
 
Good stuff, Horses

I'll share my season-opening PRs of the nine MWC teams. Keep in mind that I establish PRs for all 120 Division teams. My top team at the start of the year usually has a PR of 100, while my 120th team is typically around 45.

BYU starts the year with my 23rd highest PR of 78.

About the only notable difference in my MWC PRs is I have a larger variance from the best team, in terms of PR (BYU), to the worst team (UNLV/San Diego State).

PRs give me a starting time at crafting a line, but is only a piece of the puzzle and certainly not the entire puzzle.

In any event, BYU has a PR that is 24 points higher than that of UNLV and San Diego State.

Here mine are:

BYU, 78
Utah, 77
TCU, 75
New Mexico, 63
Air Force, 60
Wyoming, 60
Colorado State, 56
UNLV, 54
San Diego State, 54

Obviously, we both see large gulf between the top three teams and the remainder of the conference, although mine again is slightly more pronounced.

Good luck and thanks for sharing your work,
Paul
 
Thanks for the post Pstone; I do my ratings exactly like you do, but I converted them (and made BYU 100) for the sake of the board. I don't really concern myself too much when I am off from guys like you and VK a little bit; the fact VK has BYU and Utah identical and I have them 1' apart is of very little consequence. I look at it more from a 'macro' rather than a 'micro' point of view and the fact you have such a big gap btw the top 3 and number 4 is really the gist of the MWC. The big difference btw myself and you and VK is where I place UNLV; perhaps I am drinking too much of the Northcoast coolaid but I rely heavily on that pub for the first 3 to 4 wks of the season...no one looks at cfb during the offseason more than they, so why not.

Looks like we'll both be giving TCU a pretty long look in week 1 since I am confident we'll be able to bet into a number that is 4 or less. :shake:

Good luck this year Pstone; I like your posts...I don't even know who your favorite team is (which is a very good thing! I can tell you're about the money and little else).
 
Horses, you are indeed correct

my friend, I don't have a favorite team per se. They change from week-to-week depending on what is written across my betting tickets.

I have always respected your opinion. Guys like you, Garfather, vegaskyle and many others make this, by far, my favorite site for exchanging ideas, thoughts, opinions, etc on CFB.

Keep up the good work and continued success,
Paul
 
Wrapping up my MWC stuff. Finalized NM and I don't think they are going to be as bad as some folks think. I may end up looking like a jackass in 5 months for saying this, but I get the feeling that OL is going to hold their own and allow some respectable offensive numbers. Not like BYU, but certainly better than SDSU, AF, and CSU. Considering their personnel, coaching, and schedule I do think bowl eligibility is a perfectly reasonable goal. It could be one heck of a wild ride this season. I have never seen a team with so many potential toss-up games. I gave them a loss @ BYU and a win @ NMSU and other than that I think all 10 have the possibility to go either way. Just unbelievable. I am keeping Wyoming at 4th, but not as clear cut as I thought it might have been.

Working on SDSU's defense right now, which won't be dark side swiss cheese, but isn't a lockdown unit either and they better plan on getting as many sacks this year as in the previous two combined. Their offense is at least a year maybe two away from being good, but considering the vast majority of their good players are sophomores or RFr, two years is something they actually have.
 
Alright, here we go, no ratings, just order of finish. I DID consider schedules.

BYU 10-2
Utah 9-3
TCU 8-4
Wyoming 7-5
NM 6-6
Air F 6-6
SDSU 4-8
UNLV 4-8
CSU 4-8
 
Dammit J, making me go back and figure that out. LOL

1 for a win, 0 for a loss, .5 for a toss up

BYU 7-1
Utah 6-2
TCU 6-2
Wyoming 5-3
NM 4-4
Air Force 3-5
UNLV 2-6
SDSU 1.5-6.5
CSU 1.5-6.5
 
Appreciate your thoughts, Gar, and I really appreciate you giving my aztecs that 1/2 win, lol.

Have you set a line for the TCU/New Mexico game yet; I saw your thoughts in another thread about a low scoring game and you'd be hesitant to lay any significant points with the Toads. Does that still hold? I like TCU anything under 4 in this one.
 
I would say barring suspensions or something else, that is a mortal lock to be a no-play for me. There are instances when I have no problem with a very small amount of road chalk, but this isn't one of them for a couple reasons:

1) TCU never scores points early in the year and it is even more pronounced on the road. It is usually October before their offense gets to a rolling boil. That is true of good and bad offensive years. 17 @ Baylor, 13 @ Texas, 17 @ Air Force, 7 @ Utah, 17 @ OU (understandable) then the very next week 10 @ SMU (not understandable), 21 @ Wyoming, 21 @ Army, those aren't in order but those are some of their early season results from the last few years. The only time they had an offensive outburst was in a 35-70 loss to Texas Tech.

2) I'm not a trend capper but the signs don't point towards a great spot for the Frogs as Patterson is decidedly not a good road favorite (7-13-2) and NM is pretty robust when in Albuquerque, 9-7-1 under Long the L8 years.

3) Andy Dalton cannot be any worse, I'm sure of that, but it doesn't necessarily mean he will be a whole lot better either. Donald Massey the leading target from last year is out which means instead of 3 experienced targets for 2 dynamite Lobo CBs to cover, there are now only 2 good receivers back which swings things towards NM ever so slightly, and means that they will be able to take more chances in selling-out to stop the run with Brown and Turner. New Mexico is one of a small handful of non-BCS teams where you feel like they have a tandem of corners who can be left on an island (Utah, TCU, UCF, Fresno, San Jose, WMU, Toledo, BG, and FAU).

4) Both Gary Patterson and Rocky Long call their own defensive plays (2 of only 9 head men to do so) and I would figure that will set the tone for the game as neither wants to make the mistake on offense that will start the season off with a loss.

How is New Mexico going to score? I don't know, but they are the underdog so technically they don't have to. I made the line PK back in late May before I had looked at both teams in depth, that would imply that TCU is about 3.5-4.5 pts better. After looking at both teams I think TCU is probably a little bit better than I thought they were while NM is about the same. I would consider TCU at PK thru -2.5 anything after that I will probably be disinterested in. When you start talking in terms of 4s, 5s, 6s, or 7s I am just completely dissuaded from the favorite and at 7 I would start to look at the dog.

The only game involving a MWC team in the opening weekend that looks appealing to me is Ohio getting their asses completely kicked in Laramie. By the time late August rolls around I will have this entire forum on that game and will either look like a total goat or a total hero at the beginning of September.
 
really appreciate the thoughts, S...look forward to hearing your thoughts on ohio u and wyoming, though I am confident I know what a couple of your angles are. Back to the TCU @ New Mexico game...

A hallmark of Rocky Long's teams in Albuquerque is that they get better as the season marches on; the time to get NM is early, to wit: they are 0-5 ATS in their first lined game of the season. I say first lined game, because in 2006, they were busy losing their 1st game straight up to portland st in a non-lined game. Another angle I like here is that TCU finished 4-4 SU in the conference last year after dominating the conference their first two years as members. The dropoff last year had nothing to do with talent, but rather injuries, off the field issues and starting a redshirt freshman at qb. None of those should be issues this year, esp in week 1. Note they spanked baylor 27-0 LY in week 1, so it's not like they're inept early on. Think they'll be very fired up to get the conference record off to a good start after such a lackluster record LY. Speaking of dalton, aren't you being a little rough considering he was a rfr last year? He was a legit qb out of hs and I expect solid improvement, plus, he can move.

On the flip side, Patterson's record as an away favorite is noted; I'm not a trend player either, but I am aware of them and I consider this one noteworthy.

Final two points...TCU has stephen austin on deck while NM has TAMU; clearly not a lookahead for the Lobos but not an ideal spot either. Final and most significant thought...and that is the TCU DL vs the Lobo OL. Yes, the Lobo OL will improve as the year goes on (as will the entire team as it always does) but Ferguson will have little running room in this contest. Now check out all the receptions and talent the Lobos lost at WR and you'll rightfully wonder how the Lobos are going to score much in week 1 against a legitimate defense. I have a good amount of respect for Lobo QB Porterie, but one thing he is not is real mobile...which won't bode well in game 1 where all those new Lobo OLmen will be going up against a pretty seasoned Frog front. Like I said...I'll be on the Toads here at anything under 4.
 
temporarily changing subjects from the MWC...

Are you the type of guy that will play a side and a total on the same game if you like them both enough? I see folks do it all the time, especially in in-game threads you read where folks did it and I just cannot stomach that. Personally, I have always been put off by the thought of doing that as its tough to consistently go 2-0 in those situations and its frustrating to be 1-1 when you had one angle correctly capped (even if your preferred choice lost and you saved a little by trying both). Moreover, if you're wrong on the team that executes better than there is a good shot you are wrong on how the game will flow and you might be 0-2 very easily. If its a game where I have a strong opinion on both I usually just bite the bullet and choose the one I feel better about. I got bailed out by having Cal/CSU OVER 61.5 instead of laying the TDs with the Golden Bears. Then again, I got burned last year on Labor Day as I liked Texas Tech -8.5 against SMU, but felt the OVER 61 was more of sure thing as I was certain SMU would score some points.:3_8_14:

This year I have a few games like that in week one and I was hoping you could help me sort them out if you have any opinions. 1) I have an inclination to play SMU/Rice OVER (almost regardless of number), but at the same time I am not sure if SMU will score a lot or not, while I am nearly certain Rice will have a field day so I may just lay it. 2) I lean towards TCU, but even if they cover it won't be because of dynamic offense so I have to lean UNDER more strongly here, but if TCU wins 28-17 I will feel like a jackass for not just taking the side. 3) I kind of like the idea of Utah +, but I think I like the idea of an under even better. 4) I like the UNDER with VT/ECU, but the dog sounds even better. 5) And the toughest one of all, Kansas State/NT OVER whatever sounds pretty decent, but the favorite might be even better.

And then there is the problem of totals altogether with how the rules will effect them, so I may not play any...
 
My answer is pretty simple...

I am NOT a guy that likes to play the side and total; I did it once last year in the Seahawks-Rams game; I had the Rams and the Over. The Rams had 1st and goal at the one with about 1:30 left in the game. They knock it in, I win both bets. Gus Frerotte fumbles the snap on 4th down and I lose both bets. I know this story was unnecessary, but it still lingers...

In CFB, if I like the side and total (which is rare), I stick with the side; I suck at CFB totals.
 
Back
Top