Is there a bigger embarassment to the human race than Roger Clemens?

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tipyerbartender1

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Someone's got to tell this guy life goes on without Roger. And someone should have told the Boss he's a 5-inning pitcher, and he's not getting New York into October.

I challenge you to name a more transparent money-grubbing, selfish mercenary in the history of team sports.

According to Roger (all together now, say it with me), "It's not about the money." Hasn't even seen the contract, he says. That's outstanding. Lucky him, the contract sez $18+mil.
 
"Is there a bigger embarrassment to the human race than Roger Clemens?"


Uhhhhhhhh........George Bush? :spank:
 
You got me there. I think I won't edit the title though, lest the thread be moved to general discussion.

We're talking serious business here. Baseball.
 
lol...can't argue

personally, glad the Yanks got him. but that said...i'm under no illusions as to the type of post-season SP he is, or was.
 
not "bad"...but no saint either, considering the entire package.

that said...MLB's gotta watch this, cuz there's a lot of jealous veteran SPs around baseball right now.
 
tuck, it's a team sport. And a professional sport. How team-friendly and professional is it to jet in and out for your starts, and start the season at your convenience? I'm sure the Yanks are misty-eyed over the dedication to the pro-am golf tour .... er, his family.

Am I out of touch? Guy seems like a major league asshole. Geez, even grouchy ol' selfish Albert Belle played every game. Clemens is a joke, a poor excuse for a pro.
 
I'm not overreacting, just reacting. There's no precedent for the Clemens contract rules, no teammate has ever been a big enough jackass to request them. The sense of entitlement on his part is unbelievable (he looked like a fucking Roman Emperor waving from the box), and the sense of worship within the Yanks is equally stunning .... what's Paul O'Neil up to?
 
he never requested them. hate to defend him...but it's the truth.

the Stros are to blame, as they set precendent here and offered it to get him out of his first retirement.
now...it's jsut part of the deal...for whoever wanted to hire the mercenary.
 
Yeah, I'm sure the next team just copy-and pasted the contract.

And purely coincidentally that team turned out to be the Yanks
 
tipyerbartender said:
Yeah, I'm sure the next team just copy-and pasted the contract.

And purely coincidentally that team turned out to be the Yanks
Click to expand...


it's actually not written in the contract. the extra crap is a verbal arraingement.
any team that wanted to land him, had to honor the same (unwritten) deal. the red sox lost out...when they actually had the first real shot at him...by low-balling the money, thw written portion, goign below what he got from houston last year.

like i said...hard to defend him, personally...but you got some facts wrong in regards to all of this.

yes...the yanks did show desperation doing this deal. they also had freed up the money for it this offseason, by letting go Randy and Sheff.
that said...it was a panic move on their part.

question...do you blame the yanks for the A-Rod deal too? considering that TX did it, that TX still pays 10million a year of it, and that the Yanks were (yet again) bailing out another poorly run franchise.
 
The Yanks are a poorly run franchise. This is the latest example. They were bidding against themselves for Clemens. Even if another team could pay him 1 million per start, I doubt any would. (Most could.)

Do you really think Cashman could build the Brewers from scratch?
 
tipyerbartender said:
The Yanks are a poorly run franchise. This is the latest example. They were bidding against themselves for Clemens. Even if another team could pay him 1 million per start, I doubt any would. (Most could.)

Do you really think Cashman could build the Brewers from scratch?
Click to expand...


No i don't.

But you still had the facts wrong. But go ahead and bash the Yanks...no worries. I was just pointing some things out in regards to this deal.
 
Atleast Clemens will pitch how about "Carl collect a paycheck Pavano", so glad he didn't go to the Red Sox
 
yanks, I do bash the Yanks. I'm a Yankee basher, no doubt about it. They're an easy target, they're not very good, from the front office on down to the single-A catcher. (Apologies if they have a good single-A catcher, I didn't check.)

But what did I get wrong? I'm not so naive to think that Roger's NEW contract looks a lot like his OLD contract for any other reasons other than that's how Roger wants it, and because those are the terms the Yanks agreed to. If the Yanks thought it ridiculous that a fat prima donna would consider it reasonable to jet in every five days to bless them with five innings, they would tell Clemens to go pound salt and play with his kid. They didn't. Instead they said, "Sounds like our kind of guy." Clemens and the Yanks deserve each other, a match made in heaven. A perfect synchronicity of myopic self-importance.
 
Yanks26Sox6 said:
it's actually not written in the contract. the extra crap is a verbal arraingement.
any team that wanted to land him, had to honor the same (unwritten) deal. the red sox lost out...when they actually had the first real shot at him...by low-balling the money, thw written portion, goign below what he got from houston last year.

like i said...hard to defend him, personally...but you got some facts wrong in regards to all of this.

yes...the yanks did show desperation doing this deal. they also had freed up the money for it this offseason, by letting go Randy and Sheff.
that said...it was a panic move on their part.

question...do you blame the yanks for the A-Rod deal too? considering that TX did it, that TX still pays 10million a year of it, and that the Yanks were (yet again) bailing out another poorly run franchise.
Click to expand...


Couldn't agree with you more. The Yanks got a steal in the A-rod deal. Yanks are paying less per year of A-rod's contract compared to what Texas is still paying. Talk about a poorly run franchise, it's the Texas Rangers.

By the way, don't always believe what you read or hear. Clemens was signed back in Spring Training with the Yankees but just made his announcement now. Can't reveal my sources but that is fact. I do agree that the way they introduced him last week was a joke and a slap in the face to other teammates.

Tipyerbartender.... It is easy for you to bash the Yankees because you are a Yankee hater. Fair enough. I agree that the team is run poorly but that isn't Cashman's fault. Do you really think Cashman pulls the trigger and gives the final ok on getting deals done? NO. You can't really be that naive to believe that. Don't blame Cashman when he is quote, "the GM by name" yet he doesn't give the final ok on deals to be made.
And another thing. Were you in meetings when Clemens contract was discussed? It sure sounds like you were but nothing you say is accurate. Do you know the terms that were agreed to? If so can you copy and paste a copy of the contract. I have seen the contract and if it does say that then I need to get my eyesight checked.

I will agree with you that the organization has had more downs than ups. You really can't blame the Yanks for going after Clemens. Can you imagine going up against Dice K, Beckett, Schilling, Wakefield and Clemens? Sick. I would've done the same thing. Think about it. You have an injury plagued pitching staff (which I wish different offseason moves would've been made to better the starting pitching) in Mussina (old), Pavano(who is captain asshole who fakes injuries) and Igawa (who thinks he is pitching for the Little League taiwanese team). Brutal starting pitching. Wand is the only reliable starter but then he got lit up by Texas yesterday. Now Clemens may pitch like crap and the signing may make the Yanks look like asses but there is no way in hell you can let him go to your competitor in your own division. I also agree with you that the guy is a major league asshole but until you know exactly the content or language in the contract then there is no validity to some of your comments.
 
I only mentioned Cashman once. The Yankees problems are a group effort. Cashman is a below-average general manager. Joe Torre is a below-average field manager. George Steinbrenner is a superior owner, whose only business is the New York Yankees. And New York is an unfuckingparalelled market that makes it impossible for the team to not make money, no matter how much money they toss at Pavano and Jaret Wright and Kyle Farnsworth and Mr. April himself and Clemens.

Look, I said the Yanks pitching staff reeked on ice in March. I said it scares no one. And I said Wang's a ham-and-egger. This forum collectively scoffed. So I'll say it again. It's a poorly built team, with one of the shittier pitching staffs in the American League. Too shitty for Clemens to fix.

If they want to beat Boston, they'll need to pitch and A-Rod may actually have to get a big hit when it matters. I don't like their chances, but I do love the comeback on their inflated lines.
 
This thread started about Clemens, but has become about the Yanks, so why not take off the gloves. I brought up Torre.

Most say Joe Torre's going to the Hall of Fame as a manager. I say, WHY?

After guiding the New York Mets to a 286-420 record (that's 134 games under .500, sports fans) over parts of five seasons and a series of 5th-place finishes, Torre found wild success in Atlanta, winning an eye-popping 53% of his games and guiding the Braves to one playoff berth in three years (got swept). No one hired him for a while, but he hitched on with St. Louis for parts of six seasons in the 90's, guided the Cards to a 351-354 mark in his tenure, and never sniffed the playoffs.

Meanwhile, George Castanza was getting Buck Showalter canned in the Bronx, and the rest is history.

Joe Torre's managerial record in seasons in which he wasn't managing the highest payroll in baseball: 894-1003

Joe Torre's managerial record in seasons in which he WAS managing the best team money could buy: 1079-699

What can I say, guy got smart in a hurry.
 
I don't hate the Yankees, I'm a White Sox fan who, quite honestly, doesn't even believe in baseball any more. So I don't really think I have a dog in the fight.

But I will say this from an outsider's point of view. Clemens has become sort of everything that's wrong with sports on multiple levels. A lot of his problems have been pointed out above, but the reality is, the Yankees are just as much at fault here, same with the Astros.

These teams enable this behavior. They're trying to build the story, shape the narrative to their advantage, and so they're hell bent on building this guy up like he's Jesus. I mean, is it really that much of a shock that the guy is coming off like an *sshole when a billion dollar franchise and the biggest, most influential city in the country are kissing his *ss and licking his boots?

It's like Michael Vick, these teams see certain players as complete cash cows, so they'll do anything and everything to pump them up and enable every thing they do. It happens every year in almost every sport. Hell, it was barely a couple of months ago when the Red Sox were doing this with Dice K who looked at the treatment he was getting and basically laughed about it.

Sure, Clemens is a jackass--or at least he comes off that way--but a good part of the blame is the culture surrounding these guys and the teams that enable this type of behavior.
 
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