Here is a fun debate for Turkey Day leading up to the games...

B.A.R.

B.A.R.

CTG Partner
Staff member
Latest CFB rankings...

B1G Ten has 4 in top 10 and 5 in top 16...

Not too bad for a conference that has been shitted on(and rightfully so) for years now...

With that being said, imo, there is not one team that deserves to be in Final 4...(as of today)

I'll give Iowa a pass if they win at NU and and beat MSU...close..

Sparty will have the resume record if/when they beat Iowa(if Iowa beats NU) but that is all paper here...but they just win games..


What say you?
 
I don't know what to think of it. Neuheisel seems to think there is bias on the committee for the way the B1G plays football ... More pro-style/run the football as opposed to throwing it around the field on 1st, 2nd and 3rd down.

IOWA 11-0

has yet to play MSU, UM or OSU

Good Wins
at Wisky 10-6
at N'Western 40-10
Pittsburgh 27-24

No Great Wins to speak of.

Prediction
They lose at Nebraska. At best it's a win in a dog fight.

MICHIGAN 9-2

Good Win
N'Western 38-0

No great wins to speak of. Extremely light wins. How in God's Name is this team ranked where they are with two losses? Because they lost on a terrible last play from their punter?? UM certainly appears to be headed in the right direction, no question, but there is def bias here.

Prediction
Michigan beats OSU by low DD's this weekend as OSU has bagged the season after last weeks devastating, but long over due loss to MSU. Pride come before the fall and all that.

OHIO STATE 10-1

Good Win
Northern Illy 20-13

I will spare this overly rich Buckeye forum the words I should put down to text here. Clearly the committee has bias here still giving this school credit for winning it all last year.

Prediction
at Michigan - see above

MICHIGAN STATE 10-1

Good Wins
Oregon 31-28
at UM 27-23
at OSU 17-14

MSU only has the loss to Nebraska standing in the way of what would be the #1 spot bc of the three good wins.

Prediction
Spartans beat PSU this weekend at home by 7-10pts.

----------------------------------------

To date i don't think you can argue at all where Iowa and MSU are ranked. You can argue with almost impunity where OSU and UM are ranked. But that doesn't mean the former are bad teams by any stretch just that they are both ranked too high today and clearly getting by on equity built through out the years. If you are a fan of either school you have nothing to apologize for.
 
This is just me but unless we see some drastic turn around I feel sparty in the CFP would be a travesty and a loss for CFB. They nearly lost to purdue, got outplayed by AFA, last second win against MICH, loss to a mediocre Nebraska team, and a struggle to Rutgers. All of those we're with full team strength. Granted Ohio St win with back up QB is a good win.
 
ksimpsc said:
This is just me but unless we see some drastic turn around I feel sparty in the CFP would be a travesty and a loss for CFB. They nearly lost to purdue, got outplayed by AFA, last second win against MICH, loss to a mediocre Nebraska team, and a struggle to Rutgers. All of those we're with full team strength. Granted Ohio St win with back up QB is a good win.
Click to expand...

Dangerous game to play, but if you desire then Florida would be an absolute disgrace...of course before they would beat FSU and Bama, but that team is mid level MAC but in every game with the D
 
I don't get it .. why would Florida be a disgrace? Bama, FSU, Vols, Uga ,... with lone loss a one score loss to LSU in baton rouge?
 
can the committee explain why Iowa is not at least ranked as high as the Buckeyes were before they lost when the Hawkeyes resume is superior to that of Ohio State when they were undefeated?
 
Strange case for Iowa, everyone bags on their schedule but 2 of 4 OOC games were Power 5, completely misunderstood 3-8 ISU :enraged: and 8-3 Pitt...yet for some reason they get crushed for their schedule. It's bizarre.
 
clowncar said:
can the committee explain why Iowa is not at least ranked as high as the Buckeyes were before they lost when the Hawkeyes resume is superior to that of Ohio State when they were undefeated?
Click to expand...


No they cannot, lol. As I said last week, Iowa opponents record was superior.

Ohio St, Bama...name brands...that is about it(not talking about Bama now--just in general)
 
B.A.R. said:
No they cannot, lol. As I said last week, Iowa opponents record was superior.

Ohio St, Bama...name brands...that is about it(not talking about Bama now--just in general)
Click to expand...

Right. Meaning we are still in figure skating mode when it comes to arriving at the champion .. completely at the mercy of the "russian judge". 8 conferences. The winners of each conference make it to the playoff. Boom.. easy .. done .. no controversy.
 
clowncar said:
Right. Meaning we are still in figure skating mode when it comes to arriving at the champion .. completely at the mercy of the "russian judge". 8 conferences. The winners of each conference make it to the playoff. Boom.. easy .. done .. no controversy.
Click to expand...


Sorry, too simple.
 
I was of the feeling 6 was the magic number (power-5 + most deserving outlier), but this year is going to destroy this theory.
 
kjohnson109 said:
Strange case for Iowa, everyone bags on their schedule but 2 of 4 OOC games were Power 5, completely misunderstood 3-8 ISU :enraged: and 8-3 Pitt...yet for some reason they get crushed for their schedule. It's bizarre.
Click to expand...

It's bc they are not a traditional power. C'mon, man!
 
booksbestfriend said:
I was of the feeling 6 was the magic number (power-5 + most deserving outlier), but this year is going to destroy this theory.
Click to expand...

I was one of the ones that kept bringing up this 5 conference winners plus the next most deserving team...just curious why this year is going to destroy it. I'm not sure I follow what you're getting at.

It still seems the best way to do it with the current conference makeups, and one of their Power 5 conference champions won't be left out every year. If your conference is THAT good, you'll get 2 of the 6 playoff teams (if there isn't an undefeated ND or non power 5 team).
 
Had they been preseason top 10 they could probably lose tomorrow to Nebraska and still easily be in with a win in the Big 10 championship. But gotta earn that preseason ranking
 
kjohnson109 said:
Had they been preseason top 10 they could probably lose tomorrow to Nebraska and still easily be in with a win in the Big 10 championship. But gotta earn that preseason ranking
Click to expand...


Let the gamblers do the preseason rankings... #lightbulb
 
That solution wouldn't appear at first glance to help Iowa this season if they lose tomorrow
 
Lareux said:
I was one of the ones that kept bringing up this 5 conference winners plus the next most deserving team...just curious why this year is going to destroy it. I'm not sure I follow what you're getting at.

It still seems the best way to do it with the current conference makeups, and one of their Power 5 conference champions won't be left out every year. If your conference is THAT good, you'll get 2 of the 6 playoff teams (if there isn't an undefeated ND or non power 5 team).
Click to expand...
Lots of mediocre teams, who would be "most deserving" of 4 good 2 loss teams?
 
I am with VK. Conference champs accross the board and lets do it. Goliath will usually win in the early rounds but whose to say a David could not step uup? Only real way to let the play determine the Champ and take the subjectivity out. We are already doing too much of that now and having "the most deserving not conference champ" sounds like an even more slippery slope than we are already on.
 
I'm all for less regular season scheduling and more post season, please convince these academic institutions as well and let them know how they can justify the lost revenues.

Fwiw I believe these institutions already play a couple too many games (especially those that make the final game) for amateurs. 9 game regular season and 8 team playoff sounds wonderful.
 
ksimpsc said:
Lots of mediocre teams, who would be "most deserving" of 4 good 2 loss teams?
Click to expand...

The point is that the champions of each conference would get it. The mediocre teams won't matter if they don't win the conference. There is only one wildcard team to select..there are plenty of 1 loss teams to fill in that slot. It take the entire "deserving" bit out of the equation as much as you can (since you need 6 teams, can't go with 5). Win your conference or you have nothing to gripe about...and you still may get in even if you don't win so consider yourself lucky, in a way.

I just didn't understand how this season would make that idea of 6 playoff teams a bad one.
 
booksbestfriend said:
This. Would be having the same argument.
Click to expand...

The argument would be for ONE team though. Right now, you'd get to choose from the following 1 loss teams...MSU, ND, Baylor, tOSU, Okla St, Florida, UNC, Navy. That list will shrink before the end of the season as well. The other 5 playoff spots would be Clemson, Bama, Iowa, Stanford, and Oklahoma (a few of those conferences can be won by others, of course).

Yes, you are not completely removing subjectivity from the process, but it's ONE team put there based on opinion rather than FOUR teams being there based on the committee's opinions.
 
ksimpsc said:
I am with VK. Conference champs accross the board and lets do it. Goliath will usually win in the early rounds but whose to say a David could not step uup? Only real way to let the play determine the Champ and take the subjectivity out. We are already doing too much of that now and having "the most deserving not conference champ" sounds like an even more slippery slope than we are already on.
Click to expand...

Right...that's exactly the 6 team argument, outside of the one 'wildcard' team....and that's why we've kept saying "based on current conference makeup." If they go to 8 conferences, then of course, the 8 team playoff would make the most sense. As it stands now, we don't have 8 conferences, but we do have 5 "power conferences," and we can have each of those conference's champion make the playoff, and then the one "wildcard" team.
 
Lareux you aren't saying anything incorrect but say even half of the teams you listed above get a win ending the season so then we have 4 potential teams that "could" get in depending on the argument we create for them. I would rather the field just decide EVERYTHING. If you can't beat the guys in your own conference then you do not get to be in the playoff. This also goes a long way for the smaller conferences that barely get a mention right now. Navy could beat Houston in their last game and could be a 1 loss team with only loss to Notre Dam on the road but would still get no look compared to a 1 loss team to almost any other conference.
 
ksimpsc said:
Lareux you aren't saying anything incorrect but say even half of the teams you listed above get a win ending the season so then we have 4 potential teams that "could" get in depending on the argument we create for them. I would rather the field just decide EVERYTHING. If you can't beat the guys in your own conference then you do not get to be in the playoff. This also goes a long way for the smaller conferences that barely get a mention right now. Navy could beat Houston in their last game and could be a 1 loss team with only loss to Notre Dam on the road but would still get no look compared to a 1 loss team to almost any other conference.
Click to expand...

Of course, but again, we don't have 8 conferences right now so we cannot possibly take all of the subjectivity out of it. 6 teams playoff with the 5+1 is better than what we have now, which it seems you agree with if you want less subjectivity. I'm okay with them making ONE decisions as opposed to FOUR since we don't have 8 conferences.

There are 5 power conferences, you can't have 5 teams make a playoff...how would that work? We definitely both agree...I'm just going based on what we currently have, because it doesn't look like they're moving to 8 conferences, encompassing all teams, anytime soon. Let's make the system as close to only conference champions in the playoff as we can until they do make the change to 8 conferences.
 
booksbestfriend said:
I do agree with your last statement, but there are too many ifs. Lot of teams still in the discussion.
Click to expand...

There are exponentially more "ifs" under the current system than there would be with a 6 team playoff (5 champions +1).
 
kjohnson109 said:
The BCS was fine, don't care that I'm the only one that thinks so
Click to expand...

As we've talked about in these thread this year...why couldn't they just have kept the BCS rankings and have the 4 team playoff together? The BCS would just decide the top 4 instead of the top 2, and the committee would be pointless.
 
Lareux said:
As we've talked about in these thread this year...why couldn't they just have kept the BCS rankings and have the 4 team playoff together? The BCS would just decide the top 4 instead of the top 2, and the committee would be pointless.
Click to expand...

Agree here. I also think 4 is the right #. The discussion and arguing is most of the fun.
 
clowncar said:
lol .. extra fun when you are a bama fan that the subjective system benefits enormously... sure.
Click to expand...

I'd say the same if we were outside looking in. This is pure entertainment for me. Got too much other shit going on to take this too seriously
 
I say the Big 10 is the weakest of the Power 5 conferences by the slightest of margins just behind the ACC. But two or three of the Big 10 teams in the committee's top 10 are deserving.
 
ksimpsc said:
This is just me but unless we see some drastic turn around I feel sparty in the CFP would be a travesty and a loss for CFB. They nearly lost to purdue, got outplayed by AFA, last second win against MICH, loss to a mediocre Nebraska team, and a struggle to Rutgers. All of those we're with full team strength. Granted Ohio St win with back up QB is a good win.
Click to expand...

Backup QB was a plus, not a minus.
 
kjohnson109 said:
Strange case for Iowa, everyone bags on their schedule but 2 of 4 OOC games were Power 5, completely misunderstood 3-8 ISU :enraged: and 8-3 Pitt...yet for some reason they get crushed for their schedule. It's bizarre.
Click to expand...

Its the conference schedule that's the problem. The other division has three of the conference's four best teams, and Iowa hasn't played any of them.
 
Lareux said:
The point is that the champions of each conference would get it. The mediocre teams won't matter if they don't win the conference. There is only one wildcard team to select..there are plenty of 1 loss teams to fill in that slot. It take the entire "deserving" bit out of the equation as much as you can (since you need 6 teams, can't go with 5). Win your conference or you have nothing to gripe about...and you still may get in even if you don't win so consider yourself lucky, in a way.

I just didn't understand how this season would make that idea of 6 playoff teams a bad one.
Click to expand...

subjectivity needs to be taken out of it
 
B.A.R. said:
Latest CFB rankings...

B1G Ten has 4 in top 10 and 5 in top 16...

Not too bad for a conference that has been shitted on(and rightfully so) for years now...

With that being said, imo, there is not one team that deserves to be in Final 4...(as of today)

I'll give Iowa a pass if they win at NU and and beat MSU...close..

Sparty will have the resume record if/when they beat Iowa(if Iowa beats NU) but that is all paper here...but they just win games..


What say you?
Click to expand...

It depends on what the teams ranked higher do. If Michigan State win out they may get a bump as the shady call against Nebraska cost them being unbeaten. However, they never led Michigan or Ohio State at anytime, so there is that whole game control thing. Oh wait, that's not important this year
 
clowncar said:
lol .. extra fun when you are a bama fan that the subjective system benefits enormously... sure.
Click to expand...

I don't understand the "subjective" thing.

There are objective metrics that put Alabama, Clemson, and Oklahoma at the top. Alabama has beaten seven top-30 teams; Oklahoma (with four) is the only other team with more than three such wins. How is Alabama getting the "subjective" benefit of the doubt?
 
clowncar said:
Right. Meaning we are still in figure skating mode when it comes to arriving at the champion .. completely at the mercy of the "russian judge". 8 conferences. The winners of each conference make it to the playoff. Boom.. easy .. done .. no controversy.
Click to expand...

too easy. If if stays at 10 then the 2 group of 5 with the worst record miss out. If a team is a fraud they will be found out.

As I said the other day, a playoff spot is not a reward and needs to stop being treated as such. It's part of a process
 
M.W. said:
I don't understand the "subjective" thing.

There are objective metrics that put Alabama, Clemson, and Oklahoma at the top. Alabama has beaten seven top-30 teams; Oklahoma (with four) is the only other team with more than three such wins. How is Alabama getting the "subjective" benefit of the doubt?
Click to expand...

This is sport, the only objective matter that is important is winning. Alabama has beaten seven top 30 teams, teams ranked subjectively
 
M.W. said:
I don't understand the "subjective" thing.

There are objective metrics that put Alabama, Clemson, and Oklahoma at the top. Alabama has beaten seven top-30 teams; Oklahoma (with four) is the only other team with more than three such wins. How is Alabama getting the "subjective" benefit of the doubt?
Click to expand...


Who is in the top 30 is not subjective? Is it static?
 
Rank the conferences for me ...doubt we will agree.... hence subjective. CG said Vols not a quality win. I disagree .... but two people can disagree because it is a subjective process.

Sport should be objective. The great thing about all conference winners making a playoff is that we don't have to guess and MORE IMPORTANTLY all teams have an actual chance to win the championship.
 
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