CMU - a study in moronic clock management...

[vanzack]

Below I will show the amount of time left on the playclock for CMU's last drive of regulation.

CMU is up 30-27, and NIU has all of the momentum.

CMU gets the ball with 7.28 left, on their own 33.

1st down clock stopped
2nd down snapped at 10
3rd down snapped at 17
1st down snapped at 10 (5.27 left on game clock)
2nd down snaped at 18
3rd down snapped at 15
1st down snapped at 12 (4.00 on game clock)
2nd down snapped at 15
3rd down snapped at 4 (punt at 2.24)

That is an extra 1.31 that they chose not to run off the clock! They could have punted at .53 secs instead of 2.24 just by not snapping the ball so quickly!

Forget all the other mistakes, and forget that I am not even adding in the other drives in the second half when they snapped with 15+ on the clock (when you are up by 10 and the other team has momentum with 11 mins left).

I wont even mention the stupidity of not trying with 19 secs left in a tie game at your own 30. I wont mention the stupid wasted timeout with 23 seconds left to "ice" the kicker when you could have used that timeout when you needed it.

I wont even mention how dumb it is to run a QB shuffle in OT to set up a 40 yard college FG.

This is inexplicable to me. And he will just be praised for pulling out the win. Why cant you tell your QB not to snap until 1 on the clock in the 4th qtr?

I will never understand this shit.

 

[G-Man]

True. Why do these coaches have their jobs?

 

[STEED]

lol

 

[G-Man]

They could have thrown a hail-mary with just 10 seconds remaining if they wanted to have a chance for a fg.

 

[RetroVK]

i gave up figuring these moronic coaching moves out a long time ago .. the day i lose reason it will all become clear to me.

 

[trainwreck42]

Agree 100%. I'm curious where did you get your info of how much time was left on the play clock when the ball was snapped?

 

[vanzack]

Agree 100%. I'm curious where did you get your info of how much time was left on the play clock when the ball was snapped?

My DVR records the channel I am watching so I just hit rewind and spent 15 minutes hitting pause and writing it all down.

That should tell you:

A. How angry I was
B. How frustrated I am with terrible clock management
C. How crazy I am

:cheers:

 

[RetroVK]

My DVR records the channel I am watching so I just hit rewind and spent 15 minutes hitting pause and writing it all down.

That should tell you:

A. How angry I was
B. How frustrated I am with terrible clock management
C. How crazy I am

:cheers:

roflmao .... massochist.

 

[horses]

all i can say is that they were more concerned with getting a clinching score than they were with any clock management aspects with half the quarter to go when the got the pig; very well managed teams would be able to run the play clock and focus on getting the GW score, but there are really only a handful of truly 'well managed' teams in my opinion.

 

[vanzack]

all i can say is that they were more concerned with getting a clinching score than they were with any clock management aspects with half the quarter to go when the got the pig; very well managed teams would be able to run the play clock and focus on getting the GW score, but there are really only a handful of truly 'well managed' teams in my opinion.

But they werent trying to score either.

They didnt throw on the last drive until the last play, and that was a 5 yd play.

They changed their playcalling midway through the 3rd qtr and all of those wide open middle runs evaporated.

If they were airing it out and it just wasnt working I would understand, but when there is 4 minutes left in the game and you have 1st down, the lead, and no momentum dont you run the clock down?

 

[RetroVK]

mike leach kicked an extra point with the score 38-33 with 1 or 2 seconds or whatever it was left on the clock vs texas ...

 

[Joe Public]

Whoa, a Vanzack sighting, now I know I've been gone for too long.

 

[RetroVK]

from 2006 van ... my favorite of all time.

watson brown for uab punted so that oklahoma could take a knee ... stoops was stupid and risked a fumble... this was with 2006 clock rules.

<TABLE class=tablehead id=playTable cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=colhead vAlign=top><TD colSpan=3>UAB at 4:22</TD><TD>UAB</TD><TD>OKLA</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD noWrap colSpan=2>1st and 10 at UAB 33</TD><TD>Uab penalty 10 yard holding accepted, no play.</TD><TD class=bi align=middle>17</TD><TD class=bi align=middle>24</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD noWrap colSpan=2>1st and 20 at UAB 23</TD><TD>Sam Hunt pass incomplete.</TD><TD> </TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD noWrap colSpan=2>2nd and 20 at UAB 23</TD><TD>Sam Hunt rush for 1 yard to the UAB 24.</TD><TD> </TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD noWrap colSpan=2>3rd and 19 at UAB 24</TD><TD>Timeout Uab, clock 03:18.</TD><TD> </TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD noWrap colSpan=2>3rd and 19 at UAB 24</TD><TD>Uab penalty 5 yard false start accepted.</TD><TD> </TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD noWrap colSpan=2>3rd and 24 at UAB 19</TD><TD>Chris Williams pass complete to Corey White for 12 yards to the UAB 31.</TD><TD> </TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD noWrap colSpan=2>4th and 12 at UAB 31</TD><TD>Parker Mullins punt for 41 yards, returned by Reggie Smith for 3 yards to the Okla 31.</TD><TD> </TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=colhead vAlign=top><TD colSpan=5>DRIVE TOTALS: UAB drive: 3 plays -2 yards, 02:00 UAB PUNT</TD></TR><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: black" vAlign=top><TD colSpan=5> </TD></TR><TR class=colhead vAlign=top><TD colSpan=3>Oklahoma at 2:22</TD><TD>UAB</TD><TD>OKLA</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD noWrap colSpan=2>1st and 10 at OKLA 31</TD><TD>Adrian Peterson rush for 6 yards to the Okla 37.</TD><TD class=bi align=middle>17</TD><TD class=bi align=middle>24</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD noWrap colSpan=2>2nd and 4 at OKLA 37</TD><TD>Adrian Peterson rush for 1 yard to the Okla 38.</TD><TD> </TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD noWrap colSpan=2>3rd and 3 at OKLA 38</TD><TD>Timeout OKLAHOMA, clock 00:25.</TD><TD> </TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD noWrap colSpan=2>3rd and 3 at OKLA 38</TD><TD>Team rush for a loss of 2 yards to the Okla 36.</TD><TD> </TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=oddrow vAlign=top><TD colSpan=2> </TD><TD>End of 4th Quarter</TD><TD> </TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=evenrow vAlign=top><TD colSpan=2> </TD><TD>End of 4th Quarter</TD><TD> </TD><TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[horses]

yeah...with 4 minutes to go, 1st down and the lead...yeah, definitely. I've never played organized football...is there something on the field that could preclude a team from effectively doing this (running play clock down to say even 2 or 3 secs before snap), because I gotta admit, it doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to do:

Head Coach: 'Hey Dufus, don't snap the ball until the play clock is under 5 seconds'
Dufus: 'Ok, coach.'

That should do it, no?

 

[RetroVK]

yeah...with 4 minutes to go, 1st down and the lead...yeah, definitely. I've never played organized football...is there something on the field that could preclude a team from effectively doing this (running play clock down to say even 2 or 3 secs before snap), because I gotta admit, it doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to do:

Head Coach: 'Hey Dufus, don't snap the ball until the play clock is under 5 seconds'
Dufus: 'Ok, coach.'

That should do it, no?

hell with the fog , the qb might not have been able to see the play clock.

 

[trainwreck42]

Maybe you should write a book like this guy. Except don't get it endorsed by Hal Mumme like he did.

 

[vanzack]

Maybe you should write a book like this guy. Except don't get it endorsed by Hal Mumme like he did.

I HAVE THIS BOOK!!

Paid 40 bucks for it.

The guy is right on with everything, and if you are a neurotic clock manager like me it is a great read. He lists real examples of terrible clock mgmt, it is like a walk down memory lane for me. Every game he mentions I remember like it was yesterday.

Great book. And a guy who is clearly ahead of his time.

 

[vanzack]

In that book, he advocates what he calls a "qb sweep" which is a clock killing play. The qb basically goes to the long side of the field backwards for a loss of like 20 yards, and it takes about 15 secs.

Great for that oklahoma situation above when you get the ball back with a little over 2 mins left and you cant quite kill the clock.....

 

[trainwreck42]

I saw there was a section on slow-down tempo. He must not be selling too many of them anymore. His website has Bill Walsh, Marv Levy and Kentucky Head Football Coach(not former) Hal Mumme endorsing it.

 

[vanzack]

I saw there was a section on slow-down tempo. He must not be selling too many of them anymore. His website has Bill Walsh, Marv Levy and Kentucky Head Football Coach(not former) Hal Mumme endorsing it.

I dont know how many he sells - but every coach should read it.

There is nothing revolutionary for people who are obsessed with this stuff (me), but I get the feeling the average coach never even thinks about this stuff - much less at the exact time they need to.

I always thought "I need to write a book about this" and then I saw this one day and ordered it - and I have nothing to add to it.

:36_11_6:

 

[HUNT]

Van gettin into the nuances of the game..gotta love it.

 

[Sammy Meatballs]

Vancazk how the hell are you these days, its Sammy---

You are dead on, some coaches dont know what to do at all.

ALso why fucking snap the ball with 15 secs left on the playclock--

Andy Reid is a big moron and I would say 70% of coaches suck

 

[Sammy Meatballs]

Van- most coaches are dumb, they never snap the ball with the right time and waste timeouts also----

Most dont have a clue how to manage the last minutes of any game

 

[TheGarfather]

The best thing Ben Roethlisberger did as a rookie and second year guy to help get so many wins was snapping the ball with 2 seconds left on the play clock. With the way the Steelers win by defense, rushing the ball, and shortening the game it just made sense. And he would do for virtually the entire 2nd half.

I am of the opinion that unless your offense is actually predicated on up-tempo no huddle that intends to wear out the defense, you should run down the play clock ANY TIME YOU HAVE THE LEAD. That includes in the first quarter. If you run the play clock down all game long for 3.5 quarters (after getting an early 7-0 lead let's say) imagine number of plays you eliminate from the other team. It could easily add up to the amount of time they would later need for a game winning drive.

The other one that pisses me off is when they call timeout with 10 seconds left on the clock. OK, you're confused, your guys are running all over the place, you need to talk things over, just walk over to the ref and do it right before it expires, don't instantly panic and call one.

Just because you run a spread doesn't mean you have to do things quickly, CMU didn't demonstrate that understanding tonight.

 

[vanzack]

The best thing Ben Roethlisberger did as a rookie and second year guy to help get so many wins was snapping the ball with 2 seconds left on the play clock. With the way the Steelers win by defense, rushing the ball, and shortening the game it just made sense. And he would do for virtually the entire 2nd half.

I am of the opinion that unless your offense is actually predicated on up-tempo no huddle that intends to wear out the defense, you should run down the play clock ANY TIME YOU HAVE THE LEAD. That includes in the first quarter. If you run the play clock down all game long for 3.5 quarters (after getting an early 7-0 lead let's say) imagine number of plays you eliminate from the other team. It could easily add up to the amount of time they would later need for a game winning drive.

The other one that pisses me off is when they call timeout with 10 seconds left on the clock. OK, you're confused, your guys are running all over the place, you need to talk things over, just walk over to the ref and do it right before it expires, don't instantly panic and call one.

Just because you run a spread doesn't mean you have to do things quickly, CMU didn't demonstrate that understanding tonight.

Gar - what you say about running clock when you have a lead - I totally agree. Run the clock when you have a lead - but the opposite is also true - hurry up when you are behind. Im not saying a "hurry up offense", but if you have a chance to snap with 15 on the clock instead of 3, do it - EVEN IN THE FIRST QTR!!! This was very true of NIll last night. Down by 10, they werent rushing at all - they could have easily had another possession in the game if they started to pick up the pace when they were down in the second qtr onwards. This is a big part of that book - and something that is almost never done - it is simple but for some reason not done.

The timeout with 10 secs is also very true. Also, along the same lines, how many times have you seen a team run clock towards the end of the game with a lead, only to have the punter come in and punt with 20 on the playclock? Cant they tell a punter when not to snap early??

I dont get it. They practice every detail of every game, but ignore the one thing that could actually win them more games.

 

[Sarcastic Sword]

I was on CMU as well and everything you pointed out were killing me too - in OT, I was resigned to a missed FG after they called 3 lame QB dives out of the spread....At that point, the QB was limping, its not like NIU was playing press coverage either...I realize you dont want to risk a pass but its not like these kickers in the MAC are automatic...

 

[halfpoint]

And don't forget another situation that has cost me tens of thousands.

Down 10. Under 2 minutes left. 4th and whatever at the other teams 15. 9 out 10 teams go for the TD.

What the fuck? Do I have to write a fucking book too?

 

[TopDaddy]

I was on CMU as well and everything you pointed out were killing me too - in OT, I was resigned to a missed FG after they called 3 lame QB dives out of the spread....At that point, the QB was limping, its not like NIU was playing press coverage either...I realize you dont want to risk a pass but its not like these kickers in the MAC are automatic...

The guy had already missed an extra point, and you're playing for him to hit a 40+ yard FG to win you the game, when NIU's D hasn't really stopped you? Pay me 500,000 a year and I can make those decisions. Hell, I can lose a ballgame with the best of 'em...

 

[Zeke]

Van - If you were on CMU why are you taking all this time to vent? You got the W man. I should be venting for going 0-3 last night....fucking Temple!

 

[Jasper11]

But they werent trying to score either.

They didnt throw on the last drive until the last play, and that was a 5 yd play.

They changed their playcalling midway through the 3rd qtr and all of those wide open middle runs evaporated.

If they were airing it out and it just wasnt working I would understand, but when there is 4 minutes left in the game and you have 1st down, the lead, and no momentum dont you run the clock down?

This @#$ drives me so crazy that I mute the game and go to the computer and play a game of risk. That will usually calm me down and kill the necessary time to check out the final score. If I lost then I lost but at least I avoided the Chinese water torture! I just hate watching a coach develop sudden brain damage and give away a hard fought win. I sometimes think I feel as robbed as the kids on the team,at least for a little while.
PS What the hell was NIU doing using their time outs in the 3rd quarter or very early 4th on defense! That doesn't help your chances in a close game. If they had those T.O. they could have thought about 7 instead of having to frantically hustle to get a short field goal for the tie.