Cleveland Browns 2008 Outlook

broadwayjoe

May 5Dimes MLB 2nd place
In 2007, the Browns were obviously one of the league's surprises. A big topic of discussion this year on many of these boards is will they continue to have value, or will they prove a one year wonder and fall on their face as a team and as a valuable ats team.

The purpose of my thread is to offer some opinions on the questions that face the Browns this year, as well as to offer some insight in camps and local news that others may not have the same type of access to.

I'm a die-hard Browns fan, but I do not think at all that it wavers my betting opinions, in fact I believe I do much better betting on or against my hometeams. I placed winning wagers against the Buckeyes when they played Illinois, against the Browns last year when they played the Bengals in a must-win scenario to go to the playoffs, and bet against my Cavs as road favs several times for a few examples. I have had a significantly higher winning percentage betting my home teams, whether it is a play, a fade, or a total. So I will attempt to be a benefit in this capacity.

First, some of the question marks:

Will Derrick Anderson regress as there becomes more film on him...was he just a one hit wonder, and will he continue to make mistakes in big games?

I can see how people would think this due to his poor performance down the stretch. Here's why I do not think so. I think the hype around Quinn really hurts the perception of DA. Any other FIRST YEAR starter with a pro-bowl invite and winning 10 out of 15 starts without even getting first qb reps in camp/pre-season would be praised like crazy...

Here are some facts/stats on DA that makes me optimistic that he can have another very solid year, and although the stats might not be as impressive from this year to last year, I believe he will be a better qb. These tendencies were very easy to pick up on, and when digging I found a great article in the Plain Dealer with the right stats that described the point I'm about to make perfectly..
DA at home was unbelievable. 14 tds, 6 INTs and a 7-0 record. 93.5 rating. On the road was an entirely different story, 15 tds, 13 INTs and a 3-5 record. 73.9 qb rating. Obviously a huge disparity. This obviously has a lot to do with maturity, being a first year starter (with a first year OC btw) being on the road is obviously more difficult, and the pressure was felt by the end of the year as the playoffs became a possibility and after his struggles were highlighted (idiotic Browns fans calling for Quinn). I mentioned the OC and I think Chud is also partially to blame for being overly-aggressive. Being aggressive on the road is a good thing though most of the time, especially when you have a young qb that needs to get off to a good start, and a pretty weak defense...which the Browns were definitely guilty of. So I think a lot of the gameplan on the road changed as they tried desperately to get that early lead, which may or may not have been the best move...
Speaking of agressiveness, let's take a look at the down/distance breakdowns of DA. On first down, usually the easiest down to throw on, DA threw 12 INTs in 206 passes and 13 tds. In 312 second and third down throws, DA threw 16 tds and only 7 INTs. Wow. In the 1st Quarter: 3 tds, 7 INTs and a dreadful 56.4 qb rating. Second half: 13 tds, 4 INTs, and a 91.0 rating. There are also similar disparities in cold weather games, but i'm not going there because people could simply argue that he was less effective down the stretch, and most qbs have significantly better indoor/warm weather numbers anways. Less aggressive play-calling, particularly on the road, as well as YOUTH and inexperience always wanting the big play both attributed to these disparities imo. These trends I would sure as hell hope would easily be picked up on and corrected. DA needs to throw the ball away and eat a down rather than gamble and throw away a possession. And Chud (who I'm a huge fan of btw) was a first year OC...well he needs to run the fucking ball on first down and trust the defense and o-line a little more. This will obviously put less pressure on the defense and help with ball control, which we'll get into later. Fact is, DA had a great year last year overall with all things considered. He will have another weapon in Stallworth, and if a third receiver steps up or JJ gets healthy later on in the season, Winslow will be that much more of a weapon. As it lays now, Heiden is a very underrated tight end that I expect to be more involved in the offense due to Winslow playin the 3rd receiver in a lot of sets. If his weapons stay healthy, I believe DA will be even better this year. His problem is that he gambles too much, but you have to take some risk to make big plays. He has too much faith in his extremely strong arm at times..his best year in college was similar...29 tds and 17 INTs. You have a very smart OC that has to pick up on this and help him out a little. In camp, he has thrown the ball away a lot more and he seems to get it. This is the biggest question mark, and I personally think he will be fine. And he has a yet-to-be proven adequate back-up behind him if he doesn't stay healthy. After the year DA had, I can't believe why anyone would want to see Quinn right now. The only way we see Quinn would be the result of something negative...a pro-bowl qb getting injured or a qb regressing significantly resulting in the Browns losing games...neither of which would be a positive thing for the Browns. So, being a Browns fan, I hope we don't see Quinn except as a clean-up specialist. No qb has more pressure on him this year, and it's not close...that is my real concern. The sexier Quinn behind him that fans love and imo the most hyped up year the Browns have EVER had...even in the late 80s there was less pressure/hype because the Browns were good for a long time. For the last 15-20 years there's been very few good Browns memories, so the anticipation is unreal. It will be interesting to see how he reacts, but I think it will help that he plays two good teams with very flawed secondaries at home in the first two weeks. If he splits those two games, which I think he will, and he limits his mistakes in them...I think that will go a long way in taking some of the pressure off...


will be back with some thoughts on the second most important question the browns face...secondary depth
 
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No One-hit wonder here. This aint baseball with steroids.

Browns will do fine with DA. If not there wont be any time wasted to bring in Quinn. I do agree that Quinn actually hurts the 'perception' but that is a good thing. it keeps DA from being comfortable and over confident, therefore he will not get too large an ego and have to prove himself every week.

The other factor that's really good, is that the betting public in general will bet against him as a dog or small favorite against good teams. That is where all of the value is on the Browns, especially at HOME!

Browns +3 opening day!!!
 
Schedule, schedule, schedule.

The Browns beat one playoff team I think last year and that was a shootout vs SEA at home.

Big step up in schedule this year.
 
g-man: i agree..and i think that opening day is an excellent spot for the browns. i will have a breakdown of good and bad spots as well as schedule analysis later on...

jumponboard: no doubt. they rank pitt's schedule 1st, but i call bullshit. the situations with the browns' schedule are even more brutal. they could be a much better all-around team than last year and finish 7-9 or 8-8
 
Secondary:

Stopping the run was undoubtedly the weakness of the team this year...well the secondary replaces that weakness this year. I will say a few positive things. I really like how Poole plays. I think these two young corners have phenomenal potential. If we can keep them together, I honestly believe you'll start to hear dixon/minifield comparisons in Cleveland. Both have had excellent camps. Also, one thing that will really help is the linebackers being freed up to rush the passer by the additions of Corey Williams and Shaun Rogers. I definitely expect more pressure on qbs and a return-to-form year for Wimbley. Okay, there are the positives. And that's it. Leigh Bodden was the second most consistent player behind Andra Davis on the Browns' defense in my (probably unpopular) opinion, and they needed to make the moves they did to improve our defense overall, which they definitely did imo...however the reason why they could move Bodden was because of Holly, who has starting cornerback potential. Now without Holly, that secondary is screwed. Terry Cousin? He couldn't cover me. He's about as good as Kenny Wright, whom they thankfully let go. They are still undecided who's going to play the nickel...let alone the dime. Mike Adams has had a good offseason and they are considering moving him to the nickel slot. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/pla...sports/1218616358241130.xml&coll=2&thispage=1 Two journeymen corners competing for the spot...great. If Wright and McDonald don't stay healthy, and either miss more than a game or two, the Browns can officially kiss the playoffs goodbye and I'm not joking. It is that fragile in my opinion. Adams at nickel would also thin the less-than-stellar depth at safety and might cause him to be less effective on special teams. And it doesn't help that whoever plays nickel probably won't get much coverage help from underachieving Sean Jones, who has sucked in the worst way. He'll come up and pop a running back, but he'll also be in some highlights from the other team with his pants down. He has had a good offseason and Crennel thinks he can step up and become one of the leaders on this defense but I just don't see it personally. Speaking of getting burnt bad, I'm sure some of you got the pleasure of seeing AJ Davis vs the Jets make that rookie Clowney look like the second coming of Randy Moss...how he's a pro corner I'll never figure out, and James Perry isn't much better. If the secondary can stay healthy, they can probably muster through and be hidden behind an improved pass rush, but teams with WR depth (pitt, nyg, jax, den, houst, ind, phil) should be able to take advantage of the big hole at nickel and dime at least somewhat. i've been having nightmares of Sweed (the best WR taken in the draft imo) catching 4 tds at Browns stadium in week 2...
 
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Other offensive concerns/question marks:

Jamal Lewis is aging of course and a lot of people think that he will regress. I disagree...he's had another fabulous offseason and came into camp lighter and quicker AGAIN (that chip on his shoulder must have been huge). I think the Browns need to pound him harder. However, he gets much better as the game goes on and the season goes on, which means he needs more carries to be more effective, which means he's a higher risk at an injury. The Browns have obviously bet that he doesn't get hurt by not acquiring any of the rbs that became available. That is a bet I would not be willing to make. Wright is an adequate back-up when the hoss needs a blow, but he's not a starting rb...in fact, he probably would make the roster as a SECOND rb on less than 5 teams in the league imo. doesn't really do anything above average or below average...and although he came to camp stronger and more in shape, I still wouldn't want to give him 15-20 carries a game if Jamal gets hurt. I'm not going to say much about Harrison because he's at the bottom of the rbs in this league that make rosters. he's an adequate scatback at best, and yes he's made some plays in camp, but he has very little value to the team imo. I love pretty much everything Phil Savage has done since he's been here, but this is something I don't understand. I don't get why you wouldn't add a back. Fullback is looking good with Vickers and Ali...both are good pass catchers out of the backfield and blockers. RB depth is obviously a concern.

WR depth is an issue with the loss of Joe Jerivicious. I thought he was really going to excel as a 3rd wideout. The acquisition of Stallworth I thought was overrated, but he has really impressed me and I think he will compliment Edwards very nicely. This should be a huge boost for DA having another real weapon split out. JJ was adequate at best last year as a 2. It would be nice if one of these guys fighting for the 3rd spot would step up, and I'm hoping it's Wilson because I believe he's the most talented. Camp has been a debacle though...noone has seemed to want it. This is a developing situation, as a couple of them, including Wilson played well vs the Jets. Also would expect Hubbard to see some limited playing time, and a few gadget plays made for Cribbs as well as rotation in the 3rd and 4th spots, but I don't see him consistently being a 3 or 4 because they don't want to water him down and possibly get him hurt, which I think is smart. I will withhold judgment until there is a solid 3rd, but I can't see Steptoe or Sanders being significantly effective. If Wilson wins the spot, I think he has the potential, but I've seen so many dropped balls out of the four or five guys in camp that I have serious doubts about the depth here at this position as well. However, I do believe that the depth at tight end covers this weakness up quite a bit...even moreso than the pass rush covers up the secondary woes. The depth at tight end, and the ability of Chud the OC to design plays for the tight end position makes this a lot less of an issue. The Rucker injury hurts a little, but they can always split Winslow out and use Heiden/Dinkins if noone wants to step up. That would dilute some of Winslow's skills I believe, but it's a viable option.

Be back later today with general breakdowns of the OL, DL, and LBs ...but I believe there should be very little concern/question in these units.
 
They have been getting better the last couple of years, not just last year.
 
o-line:

like pretty much the whole team, savage has completely re-built this offensive line in the last few years, and i believe if you account for their depth and versatility may very well be a top 3-5 o-line in the league. no qb was sacked fewer times than anderson, and they added hadnot to sure up depth at guard. pretty much have four very good guards and 3 very good tackles. not many teams can say that. Chud has a great scheme for these guys and they can power block as well as pass block. also have backs that are good blockers that can help out with the pass. DA also helps by releasing the ball quickly. backbone of this team, and it looks very promising to continue that into this year. also a great mix of youth and veteran leadership. only thing that might come back to bite them is that i'm not convinced they have depth at center, so if fraley goes down they could be in trouble due to letting bentley go, although that's a whole different story as i think the browns knew something we don't about the bentley situation...

d-line:

obviously the biggest change this year, and i'm expecting very positive results from this group. corey williams is locked into that left end spot and is adjusting well to the 3-4 scheme...he should be a key component in shutting down the run. rogers has been playing both right end and nose, and both have had very good camps. getting rid of orpheus roye and ted washington was almost as good as the cavs dropping gooden and hughes...both were worthless to us. robaire smith, whom i've always liked should be the other end, but i have a feeling rogers will be switching with him because he also has had some reps at nose. louis leonard, chase pittman, and melila purcell are all young players who were backing up stiffs last year. leonard and purcell reportedly have the inside track to be the back-ups along with shaun smith, and while none of the young guys are that great, they are all competent back-ups with high motors if the starters need a blow or if there is an injury. also, they are all versatile and can play both positions, which is an added bonus. rubin, the browns draft pick in the 6th round (i think 6th) is having a rough camp and will probably not see the field at all. much, much stronger unit overall imo from last year.

LBs

i happen to love our linebackers. what a stiff d-line they had to get sucked up behind over the last few years. they will benefit greatly with this re-tooled d-line, and i think they've made some great moves the past couple of years to add depth. i'll start with andra davis, who is the browns best player and has been for years. one of the most underrated players in the league (which pains me to mention because he's a gator) in my opinion...he's just a ballhawk. watch a browns game and see 54 in on every play (unfortunately it was usually 6 yards from scrimmage due to the stiffs up front). he is also a great leader who makes all the other young lbs better. he is going to be better adjusted to the 3-4 now, and i expect him to have a pro-bowl caliber year if the d-line can stay healthy. Jackson has benefitted greatly from Andra's leadership, and i think he will probably be the leading tackler on the team this season. love his quickness and his ability to get to the football. wimbley has had an incredible offseason and with this line and what's around him he should return to and outperform his 2006 season, where he set a browns rookie sack record. a bigtime force coming around the end and he's studied a lot of the nfl's best 3-4 pass rushers in the offseason. the browns also re-tooled a couple of things to get him closer to the qb than he was last year. mcginest offers leadership mostly, and should be splitting time with the other guys including peek, orr, mcmillan, and the rookie hall (who has been very conspiciously impressive in camp)....all of which have overachieved and had excellent camps. also, this breeds a lot of competition for playing time which is a good thing. bell has been banged up and will be out for the beginning of the regular season, but his presence will be felt this year for sure as he is one of two lbs that i wanted to pick up with the browns' first pick in the draft..it's too bad he got hurt. with him and leon williams inside, there's a lot of different looks and strengths this defense can impose on offenses. i think we finally have a great group of lbs that fit into the 3-4 system. there has been a knock on the ability to get pressure from wimbley's other side, but i don't see that being a problem at all from what i've seen out of the other backers. i believe this group will become a strength in a hurry this season.
 
They have been getting better the last couple of years, not just last year.

yes they have mainly due to the drafting ability of GM Phil Savage to get players that fit very well into HC Romeo Crennel's defensive and offensive systems. They took leaps and bounds last year though.


Broadway Joe...I think brewer is kind of right about one point....That is that DA isn't going to be as good as last year. O-Line last year had virtually no injuries from week to week and the chemistry the line had last year was immense. I think to expect the same result in terms of injuries last year on the offensive line is a bit too optimistic, therefore, the defense must play better. I am hoping the o0line doesn't get busted up but it is inevitable in the NFL.
 
good spots:

until they prove otherwise, don't bet this team on the road. period. also think they'll be overvalued as favorites; as jumponboard said they only beat one playoff team in their 10 wins last year. that's not proving a whole lot. also, the only playoff teams they lost to (and i'm throwing out week 1 for what should be obvious reasons) was a more competitive game than the score showed vs. the pats...one of the games where DA made some key mistakes early resulting in some shortfields and getting down 20-0...a very easy task vs last year's pats. they actually outscored them in the 2h, which isn't a gimme considering the pats running it up on everyone. the other game they lost to a playoff team was vs pitt with seconds left after a 30 yd scramble by big ben to set up the win by 3 pts...and that was on the road in pitt. so, that doesn't prove a whole lot either. no doubt there's a different feel of the schedule looking back on it, but things can change easily. last year's pre-season #1 SOS turned out to be the 19th ranked SOS at the end of the year. not saying that's going to be the case here, but i think the browns schedule from last year looks very easy, whereas the pre-season outlook didn't look nearly as easy. they're playing the two toughest divisions in football out of their division though, i know...so i'm not expecting the same type of disparity, just something to note.

anyways, here are the spots that i believe look good to take the browns...obviously some of these will change as the season goes on.

week 1: dallas +3 - already locked this in for a "big" play. if you peruse through some other threads you will find some of the many reasons of why i think this team is overrated. i basically believe that they are the cleveland browns. young qb that has had some "big game flunders" and still has some question marks (although probably not to the extent of DA), both lack of WR depth (DAL has a bit more of a problem), both are very strong at tight end, same type of rb (better depth at rb goes to DAL but better OL depth goes to CLE), a good mix of lbs and dline, and questions in the secondary (although different questions). i think a huge homefield advantage will be present here, with the anticipation of the fans and players. fans will have been drinking since 7am and gametime isn't til 4...most anticipated browns game in years. trust me, there will be a very very loud home crowd in this one. also a significant special teams advantage for the browns. roy williams will for sure be in a couple of browns highlights with his pants down...cowboys hate the deep ball (see redskins santana moss)

week 13: colts +6 (?) - making a guess as i don't really see how they can put em much lower or higher no matter how the seasons are going for each of the teams...if the browns start off very hot, it could be as low as 4.5 i guess, but i don't see it getting higher than a td no matter what. anyways, the colts atrocious on grass ATS and take a look at their schedule...5 out of their 6 previous games before this game is @gb, @tenn, ne, @pitt, @sd...i think they'll be more than softened up. they also go back home to face cinci and det after this game (what should be 2 easy wins for them when taking into account the secondaries). they will be very lucky to get through this game with a W, and will assuredly not be worried about blowing the browns out. they cause some probs in terms of matchups, yes, but they do with every team. browns could easily come into this game winning the last 3 out of 4 games and gaining confidence. this could easily be a must-win type of game for the browns before a 2game road trip, so the fans should be the difference in this one, and i'm expecting a very close game. also, crennel knows the colts well. here's an example of the teams crennel knows well...over the last 3 years (and keep in mind they sucked bad for 2 of those years), crennel has been 6-1 vs afc east teams that he used to face (losing only to the undefeated pats). he also held the colts to 13 pts a few years back with less talent. the colts are definitely one of the teams he knows.

week 16 vs cinci -4.5 - 6 - blowout revenge here brewing...that is if everything goes somewhat according to plan ...they got em at home this time in what is a must win...think they win by 20+ here if this game still means something...i think cinci is going to be even worse this year than last year

under certain circumstances
week 17 @ pitt +6 (?)- i know i said don't back this team on the road just SECONDS ago, but if the season plays out like i think it has a good chance to, and pitt wins the first game which i believe they will, this could be for the division and a chance to go to the playoffs...so obviously this game would be a very close game and pitt would prob have the public all over their balls with 10 straight victories and at home, etc...this game would only be a good play if it meant something for both teams. so, it may be considered a longshot because i'm extrapolating a lot here. if it only means something for the steelers then i doubt it will be on the radar and especially if it only means something for the browns...because the steelers would love to do to the browns what cinci did last year

as you can see...not many spots that i see situationally at the beginning of the year. things might change, for instance if they get a good number at home vs den, or maybe if they get 5 or 6 vs the giants (which i highly doubt)...all depends on how the cookie crumbles

be back in a bit with the fades
 
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yes they have mainly due to the drafting ability of GM Phil Savage to get players that fit very well into HC Romeo Crennel's defensive and offensive systems. They took leaps and bounds last year though.


Broadway Joe...I think brewer is kind of right about one point....That is that DA isn't going to be as good as last year. O-Line last year had virtually no injuries from week to week and the chemistry the line had last year was immense. I think to expect the same result in terms of injuries last year on the offensive line is a bit too optimistic, therefore, the defense must play better. I am hoping the o0line doesn't get busted up but it is inevitable in the NFL.

i didn't see where brewer said that...and i didn't think i came across as thinking that they did all their improving last year, if so that's not what i meant.

i see your point but unless there are several injuries, an injury at center, or an injury that keeps joe thomas out for more than a couple of weeks, i believe they have the depth for some of the 2s to step in and patch things up. i think health is a major issue for the entire team, as it is with a lot of teams, and we had abnormally good health last year at least offensively...but i believe the o-line is the least likely unit to get depleted by injuries that result in a significant decline. there are thin units on this team, and the o-line is not one of them in my opinion
 
good fade spots:

week 2 vs pitt - i would assume they'd set this line at around browns +2 or so...don't really see them getting more than a fg. if they do get more than a fg it will be a no play. 1-8 last 9 su vs steelers and have lost 9 straight games to them. i think they have what it takes to get over the hump this year in one of the two games, but there's no telling what a mental block something like this is; and pitt obviously the more experienced team overall and good on the road. why would i put my money against trends like those? especially if i get in my opinion what would be a shit line. i don't see them having it too far off of +2 for the browns if they set the boys at +3, but then again i'm not the greatest at guessing lines. most likely will be on this regardless of the cowboys outcome, but it'd be much sweeter if the browns "upset" the boys in week 1

@ jax - guessin jax will be 5 or 6 point favs but won't really care....i smell an ass kicking here. they just don't match up well with jax imo, and i think they lose by 14+ here...

@phil - guessing that even if the browns have a decent season heading into this game, that phil will be -4.5 or so...and i think they beat that line. phil in the cold probably still in the hunt and on monday night...forget about it. good secondary and good pass rush too. lights out. always hard to tell right now, but theres not too many situations that i would see myself not betting the eagles here...

others catch my eye like buff...hard to not like buff on monday night at home, but we'll see what the line is. gotta be tricky to make a buff home primetime line. i don't have a good feel of what this line is going to be and it's going to depend on which way these two teams go. also @ washington if it's a pick which i would assume they'd dog the browns...in which case i wouldn't be interested...

i may be way off on guessing these lines, especially if things change throughout the course of the season, but at my vaguely projected lines that's my opinion. play on the browns in week 1 is locked in and fade the browns on week 2 is 98%....obviously everything else just plain depends...

be back in a few days in this thread to project W/L for the season and say a couple things about every game on the schedule
 
They will be a very good team BUT I think they win the division at 9-7...

agree. i think whoever has a winning record in this division takes it. i think the browns can find 8 wins before the steelers game on 12/28, and chances are pitt will too...if both teams are 8-7 it should be a helluva game. it comes down to them beating the steelers ONCE i believe. if they get swept again by the steelers they deserve to not make the playoffs again and definitely will not. if they beat them once, that will be the one win that propels them to win the division i think....
 
i'll also be posting what i consider to be the most relevant/important news stories from various sources...updates on depth chart moves, injuries, interviews, etc that i think would be beneficial to the bettors

opinions/discussion/disagreements welcome...
 
I like Travis Wilson A LOT. And Cribbs will be somewhat of a factor on offense this year. Like your insights though, good post.
 
DA was pretty shaky last year. Good start and faded I really dont know what to make of him from just one year of numbers.
 
Havent read through all these but heres my overall perception..
The schedule means nothing to me..I dont care what teams did last year,
Im not a big DA fan but must admit I have treated him unfairly. Hes needs to get that touch for the short dump passes and he will be fine..I really think the win 11 games. They have what could be the #1 offense in all of football. Now they do have a serious problem in the secondary. If you watched the first game, Cousins got burnt a lot,and hes only one play away from being the starter. If McDonald and Wright stay healthy,that doesnt even make me confident,,Also I think the have a problem with Lewis, despite what Romeo says, Jason Wright isnt a solid back up. Lewis has a lot of wear and tear and if he goes down, so does the offense. All in all I think they win the division and have a legitimate chance doing some damage in the playoffs but I think the need to address a few positions as well. But I will be pounding their overs early on untill vegas adjustes to them.. I think we win a lot of games 34-27.and Unfortunatly I think we lose a few the same way.
 
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