Cavaliers/Suns-Analysis of the Total

B.A.R.

CTG Partner
Staff member
Interesting game coming up Thursday night in the valley of the sun. The leagues top team, the Suns, host the rising Cleveland Cavaliers. The Cavs have kind of been quiet this season. They have went about their business with some injuries and Bron just doing his thing quietly. They now find themself at the top of the East and at this point primed to stretch that lead. Surely they will be up for a game on national TV at Phoenix.

Its my feeling a lot of times that opponents(being the players..not coaches) love playing against the Suns. If it becomes a Phoenix style game it is so much fun to be a part of. Players love that style and its a nice little stat padding night and not as much bumping and grinding in the halfcourt helps keep the nicks and bruises to a minimum. The only players who may not like it are the fat/old guys(um..Shaquille ;)).

The current total at Pinnacle is 207...with the stonger juice coming in on the over(-111/+101). It opened up at 207.5, the there has been a small move towards the under since open.

Lets take a look at the past 4 matchups involving these two teams(total points scored...those in bold were at Phoenix):

219
221
221
223

We used the last four meetings for this purpose. It illustrates the time frame of D'Antoni's coaching tenure and the current Phoenix system. The scores before that are not relevant whatsoever to this situation.

Now, the Cavaliers are not a team that plays many games over 200. Their style, with the big men and a nice solid defense keeps most of their totals much lower. I looked game by game and was looking for matchups against teams that come somewhat similar to Phoenix's pace. Well, the Cavs really haven;t played any teams like that sans the Wizards. One game scored 191 and the other(note on road) 224 in those contests. There isn't any games against the likes of Seattle, Denver, Golden St and Phoenix to compare to. Now, the trends in this series plus the last Washington game give me a small foundation to work with.

Lets flip across to the run and gun Suns. Their totals are falling back to earth for a few reasons. One, the teams they have played have not been putting the ball in the bucket. This has resulted in a boatload of unders as of late. The key to remember here is that Phoenix is still hitting triple digits themselves each game. My cause for concern would be if they were not.

A combined 12 game winning streak enters this game tonight. Both teams are hot, confident and up for a huge challenge on national TV. Lets look at each attack.

Suns on offense:

They will do what they always do...push the ball and play unselfish. The home team usually dictates tempo and they should right out of the gate here. The tempo will tire Cleveland bigs early and thta should open up the lane a bit even in halfcourt sets. Clevelands bigs are also suspectible to the pick and roll.

Cleveland on offense:

A very efficent 108 points against a good defense in Sacremento the other night certainly needs to be established again. No one can guard James. The Suns will collapse every time he goes to lane. That leaves the spot up guys. You know Bron will be having fun out there in the open court making spectacular plays. Almost like a breath of fresh air for the Cavaliers.

Prediction:

Phoenix 113
Cleveland 105

2 Units Over 207 -111

GL
 
<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">Nice analysis BAR, I like the play too!</TD></TR><TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on">
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good write up, this card was looking bleak but may have to follow suit like everyone else will be doing. GL tomorrow night
 
Solid analysis, but if i decide to play this total, will most likely play the 2H total after seeing how much cleveland tries to establish Z early and what kind of a gameplan MB will implement in this one. I don't think many teams have the legs or the personnel to run/gun with the Suns, especially not the Cavs. the one positive to me for the over would be if they stress not only in penetration, but taking it hard even if it's the selfish play and the lane is congested early instead of kicking out of damon or donyell or gibson, etc. D'antoni and the suns loathe fouling as it slows the game down and if they do, that hampers them, if they dont, lebron and hughes should be able to slash and finish. they need to impose their will on the suns and then go for the kickouts later when their reaction time on the defensive end is a lagging a little more than usual. said this, b/c ironically if cleveland is to win this game, i think it goes over and if the suns win i think it's more likely it goes under than over, though the latter is a definite possibility of course.
 
I've got Suns 110-99 BAR, pushing the total over by 1. With the hot streaks coming in, I can see it going over. I will be adding this as a 1* tomorrow prob.

Very nice analysis.
 
Terpman92 said:
<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">Nice analysis BAR, I like the play too!</TD></TR><TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on">

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Thanks Terpman:cheers:
 
RambleOn said:
I've got Suns 110-99 BAR, pushing the total over by 1. With the hot streaks coming in, I can see it going over. I will be adding this as a 1* tomorrow prob.

Very nice analysis.

Appreciate the work Ramble. Always respect your opinion highly. I think your exactly on with the hot streaks...plus the Phoenix opposition as of late has been not great...pushing their totals down a bit.
 
renew orleans said:
good write up, this card was looking bleak but may have to follow suit like everyone else will be doing. GL tomorrow night

You know I am not a fan of Thursdays. I have picked my spots here and there and have done okay. We'll see..thanks for the well-wishes
 
xpression syst_m said:
Solid analysis, but if i decide to play this total, will most likely play the 2H total after seeing how much cleveland tries to establish Z early and what kind of a gameplan MB will implement in this one. I don't think many teams have the legs or the personnel to run/gun with the Suns, especially not the Cavs. the one positive to me for the over would be if they stress not only in penetration, but taking it hard even if it's the selfish play and the lane is congested early instead of kicking out of damon or donyell or gibson, etc. D'antoni and the suns loathe fouling as it slows the game down and if they do, that hampers them, if they dont, lebron and hughes should be able to slash and finish. they need to impose their will on the suns and then go for the kickouts later when their reaction time on the defensive end is a lagging a little more than usual. said this, b/c ironically if cleveland is to win this game, i think it goes over and if the suns win i think it's more likely it goes under than over, though the latter is a definite possibility of course.


Great stuff man. Excellent point posters should take note of about Suns unwillingness to foul.
 
RambleOn said:
I've got Suns 110-99 BAR, pushing the total over by 1. With the hot streaks coming in, I can see it going over. I will be adding this as a 1* tomorrow prob.

Very nice analysis.

my projection had 110 for phoenix as well, but not enough from the Cavs to have a large enough deviation to make it a play :cheers:
 
Couldn't have put it better myself Al, love the play. But who cares about tonight... PINNY IS DEAD!
 
can't roll with you on this one...I think you may well be right, but if either Lebron or Larry have an off night, it's going to be tough for this over...

also, the Cavs have been stressing defense and points off good D...they won't get those tonight. They'll have to run off of suns made buckets, and they don't do that worth a damn.

I'm afraid of a bogged down cavs offense.....and if the cavs are scoring with regularity, it seems to me that it'll be off Suns busted offense. I think this is one of those that could be in the 180s or the 220s....tough to say.

Hope it cashes, tho.

:shake:
 
Killa said:
Couldn't have put it better myself Al, love the play. But who cares about tonight... PINNY IS DEAD!

yeah, for the first time in a long time, none of the games are the first thing on my mind today, i can't believe this. I don't even think I want to visit their site anymore to see the lines and realize how much we're losing by placing bets elsewhere :moose:
 
Good Luck BAR...

I may have to disagree here but that shouldnt be a concern...I actually just commented in BillIvys thread before seeing this.

Basically similiar points to xpress about the unwillingness to foul . I do think alot of the last game was due to Cle work on the offensive glass...they had 20 offensive boards and 25 more shots with some guys heating up from three.....

past meetings make it seem cheap but look at Cle in Milw a few nites ago...tough call leaning Under or pass...
 
past meetings make it seem cheap but look at Cle in Milw a few nites ago

MIL a few nights ago (their 3rd straight Under, they've since had a 4th) was in their continued down spot after posting 15 Overs in 18 games.
As far as CLE @SAC goes, they had a period in that game total 39 points. Any reasonable total in line with the other periods in that game, and it would've finished up between 210-220 points total.


The pretty much rightful perception that CLE is an *Under team* (20-13-1 on the season) aligned with the Suns having gone Under crazy (13-3 last 16) explains this line. But recent form aside, a team like the Suns are typical of run & gun teams. they're either in Over form, or theyre not - their total results tend to come in bunches.

started 6-0 to Over
then 6-2 to Under
then 4-0 to Over
then 12-2 to Under

last 2 games 1-1, but the Under going under by just 4 points. Thats enough to signal to me their tide is once again turning.

---------------------------------------

I might add CLE are

O/U 6-6 in SU losses
O/U 7-14-1 in SU wins.

You dont want to be backing their Overs when they're likely SU winners, which I dont see being the case here.
 
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Awesome shit BC..

Killa...not sure yet...not gonna rush into anything and will keep a lower roll at whatever I decide..most likely
 
sorry I missed the question ontime..

I said earlier I liked up to 210..I wouldn't have told anyone to say no to 211..I honestly thought this would open 213-214...

We just need 25 a qtr each way and weare gold at the 207
 
dont ya wish teams would be nice enough to give you the heads up when theyre gonna shit the bed?

the cavs look god awful and the suns havent scored yet and we're 4 fucking minutes into the half

:hairout:
 
Smoke..I knew going into half..on pace to fly over total by 10 points that I had no chance...

In all honesty...if I had Pinny still or at least another book I woulda given serios thought to Cavs and Under in 2nd half...ah well.
 
i took the cavs -3 second half but for some reason they dicided they were done playing already

might as well empty the bench, at least maybe theyll fuckin try
 
Dissapointing...I haven't even watched any of second half..its pointless...(pun intended)
 
thats one thing i have noticed about lebron...there are certain games where he just doesnt give a shit and doesnt try at all

dont remember seeing that outta jordan....
 
Smokedawg said:
thats one thing i have noticed about lebron...there are certain games where he just doesnt give a shit and doesnt try at all

dont remember seeing that outta jordan....

Nope...even down 25 at half..Mike was scoring 20 in the third to give his team a chance
 
No team in thisa leagye should have 51 points against a run and gun Suns team under 3 minute mark of third...embarrassing performance by Cavs
 
they deserve to get smoked the way they came out and played tonight, taking way too many jumpers. can't trust mike brown as a coach at all imho
 
well at least i was able to re-coup about 95% of it with my cavs 2nd half backdoor

this game shoulda sailed over, just an absolutely embarassing performance by cleveland

they really should be ashamed of themselves

on national tv, no less

barkleys right - they do stink

(Heres my delusional stoned thought of the evening - in 3 years Lebron gets disgruntled with the Cavs sucking ass and never giving him any help and opts out of his contract and leaves to be with his illegitimate father Greg Oden on the sixers)
 
Smokedawg said:
(Heres my delusional stoned thought of the evening - in 3 years Lebron gets disgruntled with the Cavs sucking ass and never giving him any help and opts out of his contract and leaves to be with his illegitimate father Greg Oden on the sixers)

LOL!
 
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