baseball potentially eliminating the shift

[orangemonk]

am I the only one who thinks this is insane? Granted we aren't on the road to doing it yet, only exploring the option, but not letting defenses shift to where the hitter is going to hit the ball seems kind of absurd. Interested to hear other's thoughts... especially if anyone is for it.

 

[KJ]

Ridiculous, hit it where they ain't

 

[dudleysdad]

Insane
Wanna stop the shift?
Bunt for a hit 5-6 times, shift stops

 

[Lareux]

Insane
Wanna stop the shift?
Bunt for a hit 5-6 times, shift stops

:shake:

Even exploring the option of eliminating it is crazy to me.

 

[cogenman]

This will never fly. Whoever even thought of this needs the shit slapped out of them.

 

[BetCrimes1984]

I'm for it. Simple rule - shortstop & 2nd baseman aren't allowed to take up defensive positions between the same 2 bases (1st-2nd, 2nd-3rd) before a pitch is thrown. The NBA has a 3 second limit for defending a certain area of the court, this would be a rule similarly designed to free up an opponent's ability to - in the end, if not immediately here - score. I see nothing wrong with the desire to promote scoring in a sport that badly needs such moves.

 

[braves]

I'm for it. Simple rule - shortstop & 2nd baseman aren't allowed to take up defensive positions between the same 2 bases (1st-2nd, 2nd-3rd) before a pitch is thrown. The NBA has a 3 second limit for defending a certain area of the court, this would be a rule similarly designed to free up an opponent's ability to - in the end, if not immediately here - score. I see nothing wrong with the desire to promote scoring in a sport that badly needs such moves.

agree 100%. It's a bad TV product right now and the games last forever

 

[guaranteeed]

ya there was an article on yahoo that had anonymous comments from what the writer described as stats heavy GMs and they were for it, said it was better for the casual fan and an increase in scoring

and like BC pointed out, the NBA already has limiting things

NFL and NHL have both put in rules over the last 5-10 years to help offense as well

 

[Paulie The Vig]

Lower the Mound, Bring the fences in even more but please do away with the shift. I don't understand why the hitters just don't hit it were they ain't, Hey I've heard that before. but do away with this shift where everyone is in right field. How about you have to play your position within a certain area like BC says 2nd base and SS can't play on the same side of the field. Haven't they destroy this beautiful game enough for some of us already.


If where talking about scoring I think baseball has plenty of scoring. 90% of the bullpens suck. Now replay did we really need replay yes it exposed the umps and that 98% right we always heard all them years is Bull Shit but do we really need it.


Football makes me laugh if you catch a pass and break the goal line get hit roll around you have to come up with the ball or else it's a incomplete pass. But if I'm running it in all I have to do is break the white line and after that whatever happens it's still a touchdown. Sorry sometimes things are well enough to be left alone. It all started with the ground can't cause a fumble. Hey you come up with the ball or it's a fumble. The old timers really laugh at that shit.
I don't have the answers but this shift IMO isn't the answer. It's stupid. Just an Old Man's biased opinion.


Thanks for listening to a man IMO who has seen better days in Football and Baseball. :enraged:

 

[tipyerbartender1]

Opposed.

 

[hugh613]

Increased scoring and shortened game times seem at odds with one another. Besides, if they want to increase scoring, maybe teach some of these dummies baseball fundamentals like hitting a grounder to the right side of the infield to move a runner over to 3rd, or hitting the ball on the ground when the infield's conceding a run.

 

[guaranteeed]

interesting thing I saw today actually might make me rethink

BABIP was higher last year, its OPS thats dropping and strikeouts that are rising

 

[cubsker]

strikeouts are rising for a very simple reason. pitchers are throwing harder and harder every year. A guy I know is training high school kids to throw in the 90s with his revolutionary training methods. He now is consulting with 3 MLB teams. How long until programs like his are everywhere and you have to throw 90 just to crack a good high school team's rotation? They may have to lower the mound or a drastic idea would be to move the mound back a few feet.

 

[BetCrimes1984]

I think moving fences too significantly in would cheapen the game, and actually hurt it (see next paragraph).

interesting thing I saw today actually might make me rethink

BABIP was higher last year, its OPS thats dropping and strikeouts that are rising

I think one reason strikesouts are rising is because batters are aware scoring is dropping/runs mean more = swinging for a HR then equates to a better proposition than simply trying to manage a 'regular' hit to then get the guy behind you to drive you in. 2 innings/6 outs all spent swinging for the fences is seen as more likely to result in at least 1 run (a HR, or an XB hit that's a near miss HR) than they are worth spent trying to get a run in with a cycle of 'regular' hits. Naturally players swinging away with all their gusto leads to strikeouts when pitchers either know or guess that this is the mindset predominanting in the opposing offense. How many times does a certain game situation lead us to know a certain batter is going to be given nothing to hit & a walk is on offer for him if he'll take it, and yet he swings at garbage to try and be the hero/win the game with 1 big hit. I think it's this latter mindset that's become writ large. Pitchers may be throwing harder, but pitchers - no matter how hard they throw - will always offer up shit before they'll offer up strikes if they know a batter isn't going to accept a walk. Guys swinging for the fences aren't looking to walk. The shift further kills the belief offenses have that they can string together a bunch of 'regular' hits needed to bring in a run, making the big dinger even more attractive to aim for (& hence risking striking out in pursuit of).

As for speeding up the game, there are numerous little things that could be curbed/promoted to manage that. I hardly think many fans would complain about long/er games if increased scoring/increased incidents of games being back-and-forth shootouts were the root cause of such.

 

[Lareux]

interesting thing I saw today actually might make me rethink

BABIP was higher last year, its OPS thats dropping and strikeouts that are rising

I'll try and find the article that I posted twice before, when this shift topic came up. The shift hasn't had nearly the effect on offense that people think it has...the strikeouts in the league are up for one very major reason...specialized bullpens. The article was in SI, and went into depth about BABIP, Ks, etc.

 

[Lareux]

I think moving fences too significantly in would cheapen the game, and actually hurt it (see next paragraph).



I think one reason strikesouts are rising is because batters are aware scoring is dropping/runs mean more = swinging for a HR then equates to a better proposition than simply trying to manage a 'regular' hit to then get the guy behind you to drive you in. 2 innings/6 outs all spent swinging for the fences is seen as more likely to result in at least 1 run (a HR, or an XB hit that's a near miss HR) than they are worth spent trying to get a run in with a cycle of 'regular' hits. Naturally players swinging away with all their gusto leads to strikeouts when pitchers either know or guess that this is the mindset predominanting in the opposing offense. How many times does a certain game situation lead us to know a certain batter is going to be given nothing to hit & a walk is on offer for him if he'll take it, and yet he swings at garbage to try and be the hero/win the game with 1 big hit. I think it's this latter mindset that's become writ large. Pitchers may be throwing harder, but pitchers - no matter how hard they throw - will always offer up shit before they'll offer up strikes if they know a batter isn't going to accept a walk. Guys swinging for the fences aren't looking to walk. The shift further kills the belief offenses have that they can string together a bunch of 'regular' hits needed to bring in a run, making the big dinger even more attractive to aim for (& hence risking striking out in pursuit of).

As for speeding up the game, there are numerous little things that could be curbed/promoted to manage that. I hardly think many fans would complain about long/er games if increased scoring/increased incidents of games being back-and-forth shootouts were the root cause of such.

Well most places moved their fences back when they built these new 'cathedrals' for their teams to play in. Moving them back to where they were (and where they should be) shouldn't be too big of an issue.

I disagree with the 2nd part, that's not why Ks are up.

 

[Dollaz]

Opposed to this. I don't care what the score is; low or high scoring is appealing to me. Speeding the game up would be my primary concern in terms of "fixing baseball."

I don't have a shred of interest in watching a 4 hour Yanks/Red Sox game.

 

[tipyerbartender1]

Sport doesn't need fixing on the field. Needs a weaker players union and a hard salary cap.

 

[RetroVK]

Sport doesn't need fixing on the field. Needs a weaker players union and a hard salary cap.

Holy crap.... I agree.

 

[tipyerbartender1]

You're only getting smarter, Kyle.

 

[tipyerbartender1]

As most of you guys know, the shift isn't new. Using analytics to align the defense on every batter if not every pitch, is kind of new, but the shortstop has been standing on second base for a dead pull left-handed hitter for 100+ years. If we do this, can we still plant the outfield in throwing distance with the winning run on third and less than two out? Or is that a shift?

 

[Schrute]

Infield can no longer play in

Outfield must play at same depth regardless if it's Charlie Morton or Giancarlo Stanton at the plate

 

[KJ]

CF must play directly behind the 2B bag and absolutely no cheating in on obvious bunting situations.

JFC there are 9 defenders on the field, figure out a way to beat them, this is suddenly rocket science?

 

[Schrute]

Seems like they should either unify the DH or make pitchers hit across the sport before worrying about the shift

 

[tipyerbartender1]

CF must play directly behind the 2B bag and absolutely no cheating in on obvious bunting situations.

JFC there are 9 defenders on the field, figure out a way to beat them, this is suddenly rocket science?

And it's a pretty big field. Scoring's down because they cleaned up steroids and we're in kind of a pitching cycle. Lot of dominant starters right now, I don't know if I chalk it up to much more than coincidence. And the bullpen specialization, which has been mentioned. And which is managed backwards. I think I could make it even lower scoring if I could use my best relievers whenever I wanted, regardless of inning.

 

[tipyerbartender1]

Seems like they should either unify the DH or make pitchers hit across the sport before worrying about the shift

Pitchers should hit. That DH has always been dumb. More players union nonsense, the idea ran its useful course 25 years ago, now it pretty much just extends the careers of guys who can barely move, but can swing a bat four times a night.

 

[tipyerbartender1]

I don't think pitchers would be .120 hitters, laying down bunts and running the bases in warm-up jackets, if pro baseball would just say we expect you guys to hit a little bit. It can be done. Most of these guys were probably decent hitters as amateurs. For some reason, after the introduction of the DH in the AL, the NL pitchers started to suck at the plate too.

 

[braves]

How do you make baseball Interesting again to the younger generation? that's kinda what all of this is about and it's good that they are at least having the conversations.

 

[tipyerbartender1]

How do you make baseball Interesting again to the younger generation? that's kinda what all of this is about and it's good that they are at least having the conversations.

It's a lot older than football and basketball, with few rule changes. It's popular enough to survive. They could outlaw the shift and put in a pitch clock, it will lead to zero additional fans. You like it or you don't.

 

[tipyerbartender1]

You want more nationwide interest, give more teams hope.

 

[braves]

It's a lot older than football and basketball, with few rule changes. It's popular enough to survive. They could outlaw the shift and put in a pitch clock, it will lead to zero additional fans. You like it or you don't.

It's not about survival it's about growing interest in the game. It's primarily a regional sport right now( east coast and most of the midwest)

I dont buy a hard salary cap is the answer. People want to see the big name teams do well.

Baseball does an awful job marketing it's players . Mike Trout should be a Household name and his face everywhere. The guy could walk down the streets in most cities in America And not get recognized

It's already been passed by college football probably also NBA , and could be passed by soccer in 20 years.

 

[tipyerbartender1]

It's not about survival it's about growing interest in the game. It's primarily a regional sport right now( east coast and most of the midwest)

I dont buy a hard salary cap is the answer. People want to see the big name teams do well.

Baseball does an awful job marketing it's players . Mike Trout should be a Household name and his face everywhere. The guy could walk down the streets in most cities in America And not get recognized

It's already been passed by college football probably also NBA , and could be passed by soccer in 20 years.

I think the marketing problem takes a back seat to the competitive balance problem, but we can agree to disagree.

I don't see a reasonable rule change that will attract young fans and promote the sport. Interest starts early, American kids don't play much baseball. It's not going anywhere, it's just not as popular as it was in 1950.

 

[tipyerbartender1]

People don't want to "see big name teams do well" ... I think that's completely false. Big name teams have a lot of fans, it's fun for their fans and it's fun to beat them when they're good, but not enough fun to sustain interest in 30 markets for years and years.

 

[braves]

Hard caps aren't an ultimate fixer to competitive balance, and it really only works in football. They allow the cheap owners an excuse to be cheap and punish the franchises that want to win. You see it in the NBA today

What are these teams doing with the revenue sharing, are they investing it in players?

 

[tipyerbartender1]

Hard caps aren't an ultimate fixer to competitive balance, and it really only works in football. They allow the cheap owners an excuse to be cheap and punish the franchises that want to win. You see it in the NBA today

What are these teams doing with the revenue sharing, are they investing it in players?

Baseball's tough, the organizations are huge, teams invest in teenagers, teams that draft and develop will do pretty well. BUT, major league teams with limited resources, less local TV money, can't make mistakes. No owner will go broke running a MLB team, maybe the Detroit guy cuz he's 800 years old. A team will not operate at a loss for a bunch of seasons. The Yanks, the Dodgers, they will never operate at a loss no matter how many Nick Swishers they sign. It's an advantage.

I will never buy the examples of the big market teams that stink (Mets, Cubs), nor the small market teams du jour … how come no one points to the Twins anymore? These exceptions do not dismiss the obvious advantage of a more flexible payroll when trying to sustain success.

 

[SIGO]

Agree 100% with tip. How are you supposed to be a padres fan when the dodgers right to the north are probably spending close to 3 times the amount on payroll. I wouldn't have much hope to compete against that

 

[braves]

I don't disagree that the better the team is the more support they will get( though kc Oakland, seattle and Pitt don't really show that based on last year Attendance)..but the bigger issues IMO is it isn't interesting to the masses , it's not a good TV sport, and the games last too long.. I'd tackle improving those instead of punishing teams that want to win by limiting what they can spend

 

[tipyerbartender1]

I predict KC, Oakland, Seattle and Pitt will eventually recycle. Just like Tampa, Miami, Cleveland, and Minny do now. Funny, the Yanks and Sox never seem to have to go through it. Just lucky and smart.