ASU @ Oregon -7

bjorks

Secretary of Fondy Fanclub
Contrary to some reports I've read on other sites, Rudy Carpenter's injured thumb is not broken and he most definately will play Saturday.

Carpenter has a sprain and will be limited in throwing in this week, but there is no major damage.

A very interesting matchup for what could be the Pac 10 title. I'm not betting at all again this week, but I'll have a little breakdown later this week again.
 
Contrary to some reports I've read on other sites, Rudy Carpenter's injured thumb is not broken and he most definately will play Saturday.

Carpenter has a sprain and will be limited in throwing in this week, but there is no major damage.

A very interesting matchup for what could be the Pac 10 title. I'm not betting at all again this week, but I'll have a little breakdown later this week again.

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An injury to the thumb greatly affects a QB's throwing ability.

There are 3 fingers that are essential in throwing a ball accurately: the thumb, the index finger, and the ring finger.
 
I think this line is high for a reason....ASU is solid no doubt, but their slow starts will hurt them Sat. I think.
 
An injury to the thumb greatly affects a QB's throwing ability.

There are 3 fingers that are essential in throwing a ball accurately: the thumb, the index finger, and the ring finger.

The injury is not nearly as bad as they are making out to be. It's jammed, but he's fine.
 
I think this line is high for a reason....ASU is solid no doubt, but their slow starts will hurt them Sat. I think.

Well said. I think these are 2 very good teams, but ASU will have difficulty making a come back in the 2nd half against a good team on the road.

I respect Erickson a lot as a HC and I think this is a good team, but they have gotten to play the better teams (Colorado & Cal) at home, and now they play a really good Oregon team on the road.

I see undefeated ASU losing 2 of the next 4 games, and quite possibly 3 of them. Oregon on the road, USC at home, and at UCLA. Those are 3 tough games because Oregon and UCLA are tough at home, and USC is tough anywhere.
 
bjorks, watched ASU for the first time this weekend. i was impressed, with the overall speed and skill players in particular.

I don't know where they'll finish out as they have some tough ones remaining, but like a lot of the country, truthfully I thought they were pretenders before seeing them, due to the schedule. I certainly think they can play with all of the top teams. Congrats and GL.
 
any thoughts on the total? 61 seems like a very low number for these two offenses.

I got burned for thinking the same thing for the Cal-ASU game, but if Longshore didn't start throwing like his vag was hurting, I think that game would have gone over easily.
 
A couple thoughts on the big game in Eugene...

Regardless of what the standings say USC is still the premiere team to beat in the PAC 10. Despite their troubles this year, the biggest game of the year for every team is still the game against SC. Call it revenge, call it what you want, but beating SC is bigger than beating anyone else in the conference.

Oregon is coming off that type of win last week with a BIG win over SC. The Ducks were able to capitalize on an improving defense getting 4 big turnovers. The Ducks showed they could sustain drives and run the ball with great success against the SC defense littered with Day 1 NFL picks. Oregon's offense leads the conference in almost every statistical catagory including the conferences leading rusher in Jon Stewart (130yds/gm). The one weakness however is their WR's. Oregon is focused on the run, but I'm not convinced Oregon's WR's are 100% healthy or they are good enough to attack the ASU secondary consistently.

The Duck defenses weakness is they're going to give up yards in big chunks through the air. They are improving, but it is their weakness. They have shown to be stingy at times this year (Michigan 7, Wazzou 7, SC 17), BUT they've relied a bit on a mentality that they're just going to outscore the opponent giving up points (Houston 27, Fresno 21, Stanford 31, Cal 31, Washington 34) and now they're facing the best offense they've seen all year. If you are going to give up 30+ to ASU, good luck.

Rudy Carpenter is fine. He can make all the throws and as long as he doesn't reinjure that thumb ASU is going to have more than a fighting chance. Ryan Torain's absense is going to be felt in a game like this. Dimitri Nance and Keegan Herring did a fantastic job against CAL last week gaining 190+ yards on the ground and Carpenter was his usual self, starting of brutally slow, but really turning it on by about the midpoint of the 2H. It's going to be scary if ASU is ever "on" from the first gun. I LOVED Erickson's approach last week against Cal. ASU came out on the first series in a 5 wide spread and had Cal completely confused with 2 LB's on WR's. If not for a false start, ASU would've been off to the races. I asked one of my sources what the rationale was and they said "the coaches knew it would throw Cal off and we were hoping for a big play or a timeout, but they're also trying to get Rudy off to a faster start". Part of that slow start against Cal was also do to horrific officiating. It was by far the worst crew the PAC 10 could've put together. Cal got ahead on the defensive TD after the ref blew a clear facemask call that would've given ASU a 1D, but instead casued the fumble and return. Then there was the inadvertant whistle on the punt return that resulted in Cal retaining the ball instead of 1st and goal ASU. Not only did they jump the gun on the whistle, but the reviewed a play that can't be reviewed! They reversed their decision after the booth said there was an inadvertant whistle, YOU CAN'T REVIEW THAT!!! Anyway...

The ASU defense is for real and I hope people are finally starting to realize that. They are fast and they have the best defense in the conference and I'm going to say they're faster than SC. Nate Longshore, the best QB they've faced this year, didn't do anything. His two picks were awful and were a result of constant pressure from the ASU DL. ASU didn't register a lot of sacks, but they had the knockdowns and on both of Longshores picks, he was under pressure and short armed the ball. His second he had DeSean Jackson open by 7 yards and threw it 10-12 yards short because of the rush.

Justin Forcett is the 2nd leading rusher in the PAC and he was a non factor. Stewart is a different type of back, but I'd be surprised if he broke 100 yards for the game.

ASU offense Vs. Oregon defense
This is going to be a great game. Oregon gives up yards and ASU scores a lot. Oregon has the best RZ defense, while ASU has the best RZ offense. Herring and Nance proved to a lot of people they can gain yards on the ground. Oregon's defense is statistically worse than Cal's and is ranked 7th overall in the conference. ASU is not going to change the game plan greatly from what they've done to get here and what they did to beat Cal last week. Balance, balance, balance. One way or the other the ground game will get established, whether it's by dink and dump, or of Oregon decides to focus on the pass they'll run it down their throats.

Oregon is going to put a lot of pressure on Carpenter, but I know for a fact the ASU OL is focusing on protecting Carpenter this week. Rudy takes a lot of pride in efficiencey and completion %, but he's not going to risk taking a big hit to that thumb as opposed to throwing it away.

The Oregon secondary is fast, but Erickso's style has been to dink and dump teams to sleep and then look for the long ball. If Herring and Nance have the success against Oregon that they did against Cal, WATCH OUT!

ASU Defense Vs. Oregon Offense
Nobody has yet to truly slow down Dennis Dixon and Jon Stewart, but if there was a team to do it, it's ASU. ASU has had a lot of success in Eugene and I also know ASU DC Craig Brey has talked with former DC Bill Miller (under Koetter) about things they did to slow down Oregon (well not last year, but the year before). SC's defense kept Dixon in check for the most part last week and ASU is faster. not in the secondary, but the front 7 is faster and better right now than anyone in the conference and anyone Dixon and Stewart will have seen so far.

ASU isn't going to get the sacks and big losses like other teams, but what they're going to do is make opposing offenses think. ASU is going to lay the wood on you and if it costs them 15 yards, they'll take a few of those. Dixon and Stewart are going to get smacked and if you're an offesive player knowing you're going to get smacked at the end of a play that hurts you, just ask Cal if those hits add up.

Dixon is going to attack ASU frosh DB Omar Bolden, but you can't do that the entire game. Bolden had single coverage for much o the Cal game and although he gave up a lot of receptions, he didn't give up the big play. ASU has faced the top 2 WR's in the conference in Jackson and Gibson from Wazzou and controlled them. Oregon doesn't have anyone even close to them.

Special Teams
Punt returning - Kyle Williams has the edge
Kick returning - Stewart hasthe edge
Kickers - ASU has the edge

Coaching
I can officially say I've drank and gone back for 2nds on the Dennis Erickson koolaid. What this guy has done to this team is incredible. I love his philosophy he's taken with this team. Let's simplify things and let our guys excell at what they are capable of doing. Koetter's biggest probelm on O and D was he had multiple schemes and looks and the teams never got really good at anyone of them except passing. Erickson's approach is let's be awsome at a few things as opposed to average on a lot of things. This has transformed ASU into a fast and efficient team.

Mike Belotti is a good coach but I give the edge to ASU. Erickson isn't going to be overwhelmed walking into Autzen Stadium and his calm approach is going to definately reflects onto the team.

Misc. Notes
Rudy Carpenter's thumb - if Danny Sullivan has to play...let's not go there. I've talked with Rudy and the thumb thing is blown out of proportion, but still.

TOP - ASU is #1 in TOP and if they can control the clock, they control the game (I know, earthshattering insight). But the more ASU's O is on the field the better it will be.

@ Autzen - You're going to think I'm crazy, but I think this helps ASU that the game is on the road. ASU is not intimidated to play in Autzen. As you should know by now, Carpenter "struggles" at times to keep his emotions down. Last week it was clear he was too jacked up at Homecoming. The team was too jacked up, how many times do you see a guy leading a team out of the locker room fall at about the 35 running between the band, high comedy, but Carpenter's emotions are better on the road than at home. Add to that ASU is 8-6 all time at Autzen and I likey.

1Q - ASU can't give up free points to Oregon simple as that. Cal was lucky they put up 20 last week, Oregon is going to score, but if they score early, ASU has to answer. A 13-0 lead by Oregon will spell disaster for ASU because that means they aren't moving the ball or controlling the clock.

Prediction
Whoever wins this game has a legit chance to win out and play in the national title game. I like the PAC 10 champion's chances a lot better than BC having to play in the BE title game or Oklahoma in the B12 title game.

ASU made a statement last week against Cal and now's there chance to solidify themselves in the eyes of the critics. Oregon wins and they are probably in line for the national title game like I said.

BUT, Dixon will have to be flawless against ASU much like Carpenter will have to be as well.

Some teams just have the others number, and there's a little of that here. ASU can play severly limit the Oregon offense and Dennis Dixon and Jonathan Stewart and I'm not sold Oregon can slow down ASU's offense. Oregon will have some let down after beating SC. I don't feel ASU will have a let down because they've been preparing for this part of the schedule the first 6 games of the year. Everyone is jumping on Oregon, people are still not sold on ASU and the Sun Devils are still playing with a little chip on their shoulders. They know they still have something to prove and nothing to lose this week. If they win, they're winning out and winning the conferenve, but if they lose, everyone expected them to lose. What do you have to lose if everyone thinks you're going to lose?

There were times under Koetter the team was so focused it was scary and then they'd go lay a turd. It's much loser here now, but this team is focused and has answered the call everytime this year. I love the attitude this week and I love ASU in this spot getting a TD. I'm not saying that because they're my team, but if there's a team I'd like to play in this spot it'd be Oregon.

ASU 27
Oregon 24

Ramblins I know, BOL this week and Go Devils!
 
Unless he fell out of bed last night Rudy Carpenter is playing.


he did miss practice - didnt hear about him not playing...I saw the injury on Sat night - looked painfiul, he hit it again on a helmet.........It will be sore no doubt....With that said, I agree with the earlier post about Longshore and his 2nd half appearance of playing with a vag - Cal dominated them for 30 minutes...Autzen Stadium is a tough place to play - I dont think the Ducks collapse in the 2nd half like the Golden Bears......Ore -7
 
2 things...Cal dominated for about 20 minutes. Midway throught the 2Q was when ASU took over the game. Rudy was held out of practice also, but looked great last night.

Rudy IS playing, I don't know where Troy heard that, but I talked to Rudy last night and he said everything in practice went well.

I've said all along the injury was "over hyped" by the media and still believe that (a little Erickson gamesmanship). AZ radio has said nothing about him NOT playing and I know Rudy wouldn't lie to me less than 24 hours ago about it. He passed the ball fine at practice and you wouldn't be able to tell if you didn't know any better.

Sooo...unless he fell out of the bed, has been unconcious in the hospital, he's playing.

My prediction is ASU wins SU, but I definately like ASU getting 7 regardless as opposed to Oregon winning by 8+. Autzen is a tough place to play, but ASU has faired very very well there and this team in the eyes of the public has nothing to lose.
 
you can't throw with a bad thumb no questions asked they are done! i like asu but their luck runs out this weekend
 
you can't throw with a bad thumb no questions asked they are done! i like asu but their luck runs out this weekend

I"m not disagreeing with you troy about the game or bad thumbs in general. All I can tell you is I talk to Rudy a couple of times a week and I have access to their practices and their trainers.

I also have seen his thumb up close and personal and know what actually happened and what the trainers are saying about. I don't know if it sways you one way or the other, but Rudy's thumb is not as bad as the media and coaching staff have made it out to be. Call it gamesmanship, call it trickery, call it what you want, but they (ASU) are definately not telling the media the complete truth about the severness of his thumb. They're letting the media roll with whatever angle they want.

IMHO ASU's chances of winning and/or covering the 7 is higher than Oregon winning by 8+. This is one of the teams I follow for gambling purposes religiously and also the conference in general. There's a lot of things going in favor of Oregon, but ASU has some plusses also in Eugene. Regardless it's going to be a helluva game and I can't wait.
 
Was just told he injured it in the 3rd quarter last week. The fact that he was able to play the rest of the game is intriguing. Everyone swears he will be ready to go though he is practicing with a brace.
 
Was just told he injured it in the 3rd quarter last week. The fact that he was able to play the rest of the game is intriguing. Everyone swears he will be ready to go though he is practicing with a brace.

He is wearing a brace to protect it, but practicing with it taped and a glove over it, that's all. Still haven't decided if he will wear the glove for padding Saturday or not. The glove is basically for padding. It's really more of a bone bruise than a sprain or jam.

Him and Keegan Herring had a mix up on a handoff and he hit Herring's shoulder pads. He then later whacked it on a helmut on the follow thru.
 
brett favre played through a broken thumb a couple years back. I don't think the thumb is that big a deal in terms of throwing the ball.

I actually remember wondering how the fuck he could throw with a broken thumb and going and throwing a football around to try and figure it out. Keeping my thumb out of the way actually improved my spiral.

Considering that, and the fact bjork is basically telling us its not a big deal and as jasper pointed out it didn't effect him in the second half, I consider it a non-issue.
 
injury way overhyped. thanks bjorks. better defense and solid offense..ASu is no joke, if they hang in the first half, the game is theirs....might just be a good second half play
 
Great post as always bro...

I'll have my ASU shirt on under my Michigan one ;) rooting for them
 
More dirt...

Some keys to the game I've learned about and also some game planning.

The key to the game is going to come down to the Duck OL vs. the ASU DL. The Ducks have an experienced line leading the way for Dixon and Stewart. The key will be their ability to contain SO DE Dexter Davis, an all-Pac 10 freshman selection and one of the most highly regarded freshman in ASU history. Travis Goethel, received matching awards with Davis and will be a key part to the run defense. DT Mike Marquardt, a preseason 1st team all-Pac 10 player, will be counted on to disrupt the OL as well.

Oregon tries to to get the play called and snapped in under 22 seconds from the time the play is whistled dead to the next snap eliminating defensive substitutions. It forces mismatches, but communication is key if your defense is going to stop Oregon. Fortunately for the Devils the LB's and DB's are versatile. All-American candidate and Butkus candidate Robert James, a converted safety, will have the job of spying Dixon all day long. James is not big (5'11", 229), but he is a fast, hybrid type LB in the mold of, dare I say, Pat Tillman and how he played LB at ASU. James lays the wood and is ASU's most experienced, physical, and smartest defesive player. I like that ASU's best defensive player is going to be keying in on Oregon's key offensive player.

Oregon is all about misdirection and fakes. Jon Stewart will get his yards, but it will be difficult against the nations #7 ranked defense against the run and the PAC-10's #1. ASU has been able to stop the big play (gains of 15+ yards). Omare Bolden will be picked on, but the key will be to limit Dixon and Stewarts ability to make big plays. ASU has also shown the ability to create turnovers amassing 14 INT's this year.

ASU doesn't show much defensively in the 1H and that's part of the reason a) they've played from behind a lot, and b) they've dominated 2H's with adjustments. I wouldn't be surprised if ASU is down at the half, but this team had success against another rushing QB in the Washington game. ASU will see how they do in the 1H against Dixon and Stewart and then make adjustments at the half as opposed to during the 1H.

ASU leads the country in TOP at almost 35 mpg. They've done this by establishing a power running game. Under Dennis Erickson ASU is averaging over 20 more run plays per game as opposed to 11 under Dirk Koetter. The game plan is for that style to continue.

Dennis Erickson and OC Rich Olson are not afraid to throw the ball, but sustaining drives is something they've preached this week in practice. I'm not 100% sure, but my guess is ASU will take the ball first if they win the toss and look to start the game with a loooooong drive eating up clock. The coaches know the longer they can keep Dixon and Stewart off the field, the better it's going to be, especially because of ASU's starts this year. In fact, whoever wins the toss I'd bet hard they elect to receive, which is against what a lot of DI coaches feel.

Erickson likes to feel out the other team in terms of what they are trying to take away (like they do with the defense). They're not scripting plays this week like Charlie Weis does, but they've definately got a deliberate plan for their opening 2 or 3 series. The believe is this...

Oregon is going to try and shut down the run because they don't feel Herring and Nance have the ability to run for 190+ like they did against Cal....
The Oregon secondary won't be able to stop Carpenter so they're willing to give up the intermediate and underneath passes and will focus on taking away the deep ball...
Oregon will try to create pressure and force Carpenter out of the pocket, which will limit his passing options...

To combat this approach ASU is going to give Oregon a little more play action than they did Cal...
Carpenter has been encouraged to run this week if he's forced out of the pocket and/or Oregon takes away his options on rollouts...
ASU will attempt to pound the ball at Oregon...
The ASU OL is built to run block as opposed to pass block, they feel they have a distinct advantage trying to run this week...
Depending on the game situation ASU will go for it on 4th and short inside the Oregon 40 this week...2-2 against Cal and the emergance of Nance as a power back gives them a lot of confidence. They know they aren't going to win with FG's, but need to score TD's...

Finally, as much as I laugh at Lou Holtz on ESPN he's makes some very valid points each week and his points on last weeks win over SC IMO is very important. I said earlier regardless of the rankings every game against SC is that teams biggest game of the year. Holtz stated it's very hard for teams to get geared up for back-to-back monster games like Oregon is facing.

Reading the Oregon papers, I doubt anyone north of Berkely is taking ASU serious despite the win over the Bears. Let down in college sports happens all the time - look at Kentucky, LSU, South Florida. 3 good teams that lost on the heals of one of their biggest wins of the year. Oregon believes they're (insert Borat voice) the "King of the castle, king of the castle" right now and if are overlooking or underestimating ASU even a little bit, ASU is going to jump on them. Against a lower level team, talent can overcome this, but ASU has talent and that's why I like ASU so much in this game. I've lived it, I've had friends play and experience it, and it's a proven fact it's tough to get geared up for back-to-back massive games.

The difference between ASU and Oregon is the fact that ASU still doesn't believe it's beaten anyone. Yes the Cal win was big, but ASU isn't looking to hang their hat on beating a team ranked in the 20's, but the top 10. The critics say, well Cal has lost 3 in a row now, they were never that good to begin with, go beat someone real ASU. Well, Oregon is real and this is the biggest game of the year for ASU. I'm more worried about going to UCLA and losing next week than Oregon this week, because of the let down effect after the biggest game of the year. Within the Pac 10, Oregon's season is made with the win over SC. Regardless what happens the rest of the year the Ducks can hang their hat and say "Well, we finally beat SC" and feel good about the season. ASU doesn't have that yet and is looking for that with this game.

If ASU would've beat SC last week, I'd be all over Oregon because I know what beating SC means to teams in the PAC 10. It's their season if they can get a win regardless of their overall record. Stanford can go 2-11 this year, but they can say they had a good year because they beat SC, which is something 90% of the PAC can't say the last 5 years.

Back to the gameplan...
ASU isn't scared of Oregon, but they're definately going to try and control the clock and establish the run game. If Oregon loads up to stop the run they'll try to expose the secondary with Brett Miller over the middle or short and intermediate routes, taking a shot at the longball now and again. They are putting extra value on creating 3rd and shorts as opposed to 3rd and longs. Taking numerous deep shots creates those 3rd and longs.

On defense ASU is using most likely going to use Robert James to spy Dixon the entire game and Travis Goethel to mirror Stewart. As I said James and Goethel happen to be 2 of ASU's best defensive players.

My feelings haven't changed at all. I think ASU has a 40% chance to win this SU and I'd double that to 80% that ASU can cover the 7.

:cheers:
 
PS - Although I'm not betting again this week, 2 games really look good to me besides ASU...

Oklahoma over Texas A&M
&
Washington -3 over Stanford
 
Ive been talked into the Devils....crazy line jump, got 9 from the local. I think the ASU run game wears down the bitchmade Duck D and this one goes to the wire.

GL w/ it!
 
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