And my final copy - Week 1 line projections

lindetrain

Pretty much a regular
I've just completed most of my research for the preseason, and thought I'd go ahead and post some Week 1 lines. These are not the lines my power ratings produced - I will post those another time - but what I'm expecting to see. These should all be within a few points of the opening lines...

Buffalo
Rutgers -28

Miami Ohio
Ball State -1

Tulsa
UL Monroe +3

Kent State
Iowa State -6

UNLV
Utah State +4

LSU
Mississippi State +16.5

Utah
Oregon State -9

Navy
Temple +20.5

Washington
Syracuse +1

Colorado
Colorado State -1

UAB
Michigan State -19

Florida International
Penn State -36

Arkansas State
Texas -37

East Carolina
Virginia Tech -26

Western Michigan
West Virginia -21.5

Middle Tennessee
Florida Atlantic -1

Central Michigan
Kansas -5

Marshall
Miami -19.5

UL Lafayette
South Carolina -32.5

Connecticut
Duke +5

Virginia
Wyoming +4.5

UCLA
Stanford +15

Georgia Tech
Notre Dame -2

Wake Forest
Boston College -5

Nevada
Nebraska -19
 
Ole Miss
Memphis -1

Washington State
Wisconsin -15

Illinois
Missouri -6

Iowa
Northern Illinois +13.5

Houston
Oregon -16

Arizona
BYU -2.5

UCF
NC State -8.5

Eastern Michigan
Pittsburgh -20

Army
Akron -6

Baylor
TCU -17.5

Oklahoma State
Georgia -8

Troy
Arkansas -22.5

North Texas
Oklahoma -41

Purdue
Toledo +6

Kansas State
Auburn -10.5

Tennessee
California -5

Bowling Green
Minnesota -13

San Jose State
Arizona State -15

New Mexico
UTEP -1

Idaho
USC -44

Texas Tech
SMU +11.5

Florida State
Clemson +2.5
 
You sure about that ND/GT line? GT is not going to be the team they were last year by any stretch, although they can only get better at the QB position this year....
 
I was going to make some lines myself, but you, Troy, CB, kyle, and others seem to have it more than covered. I agree with the majority of these lines.

Something tells me that Ball St. takes it to Miami OH (not saying the line is off, just a hunch I have).
 
Great stuff Lindetrain, really appreciate your hard work on this.

Curious as to your thinking on the Texas line as I have that one no less than 41 as anything less IMO will result in a one sided run on Texas as Arky State needs at least in the 41 to 45 range to get any action in my opinion.

Also, I have OU more in the 35 to 37 range with the Miami tilt the following weekend. I know NT will be breaking in a new offense which should set up for a slaughter, but I expect OU to let up and save a little something for Miami in week 2 so I think anything over 37 would be a little high.

Always enjoy reading your threads, so any insight you want to provide when you get a chance would be great, thanks.
 
nice work here , lindy.

I am in general agreement with your thoughts on most of these opening lines. These are similar to what I expect books to open these games at with a few exceptions.

i expect to see the books open lsu at atleast 20. my line is much more in accordance with the line you are predicting.

i expect to see syracuse and colorado both start out as the favorites in those contests.

I expect tulsa to be more in the area of a 6 point favorite from the book. Again my line of tulsa minus 2 is more in accordance with your prediction of the opening.

otherwise i think you have an extremely accurate portrayal of the likely opening odds , within a couple of points. These are very good numbers for us to cap against. look forward to what you make your legit lines vs your book predicted opening lines. we need to crush the books this year !
 
hey blue , lindy , others

not sure if you agree but it is these large spread games , ou/nt ark st /tex that are sometimes harder to predict. since the value of each point drops a bit with games in the mid thirties to low forties, it is more difficult to predict the actual line. a one point difference from a spread of 2.5 to 3.5 is probably as large a difference as a five point difference in a game where the spread is in the high thirties. any thoughts on this ?
 
Solid point Kyle. My theory is that the books are gonna have a ton of money on Texas in a one sided sort of way unless they open with a huge number to entire some of the "all Arky State has to do is score 1 fluke TD and hold Texas to 50 points or whatever" type of crowd. With the history of blowing out the weak that Mack has the past few years, if I was setting the opening line, I would put it at 52 to dare people to take Arky State, but the more realistic number would be about 49 as "50" is one of those weird psychological numbers that people shy away from. To be honest, I would still see value at Texas with a line into the 40's like 41 to 48 but once you get into the 50's, too many weird things could happen, so I would probably pass. Good question.
 
The Texas game is a tough one to figure out, so I just tried to put out a number close to what my ratings produced. I will avoid it all together as I'm sure there will be a considerable difference from what I have, but you're probably right about that one.

Now with Oklahoma, I disagree. If you're going to say Texas lays 41 or more to Arkansas State, you have to say Oklahoma lays around the same number to a much weaker team in North Texas. OU may not have an experienced QB, but it doesn't take much to hand it off to one of their RBs and run for 6 YPC behind that outstanding OL against a horrible defense. NT will be lucky to score, as I don't think Dodge's spread offense is going to fare too well in its first appearance at the college level against the nation's best secondary.
 
I'll probably post the lines my ratings produced in the discussion thread I plan on starting once the lines are released. That was my intention, to post my numbers each week in my thread as a starting point, then discuss the games and make my picks.
 
I would consider the following..

Texas -37: They have no mercy
SC 1st Half: Blow out early. ULL might not score in the 1st half, SC will have 28+.
UCLA -15: Can Stanford score 10points?
GaTech +2: Love it, Play of WK. I will take the ML.
Arizona +2.5: Wish they had more on offense but new QB for BYU will struggle vs. strong D.
NM +1: UTEP will have to rely heavy on the run early with new qb, something they couldn't do vs. NM last yr. NM will pound the ball on UTEP.
USC 1st Half: AAA pro football team vs. High school football team.
FSU -2.5: Like them here to avenge two straight losses to Clemsux and like to keep this line under a FG.
 
You sure about that ND/GT line? GT is not going to be the team they were last year by any stretch, although they can only get better at the QB position this year....

I would like to know what you see in ND in this game and what you think the line should be? GaTech will dominate the trenches and will dominate on defense. GT with 8 starters back on defense, the defensive line returns 7 of their top 8 (lost 1st TM ACC DT Joe Anoai), this line included 5 with starting experience. This is one of the strengths of the team along with the OL. The LB position returns 5 of their top 6 with the only loss being #1 tackler KaMichael Hall. DB's also have 7 of the top 8 returning including 5 with starting experience. Now compare that to an ND offense with a NEW QB and 4 starters back. The RB postion lost Walker but will be alright with a healthy Aldridge, a highly recruited rb in Armando Allen, and Travis Thomas who started 10 games at LB last yr but has converted to offense. WR postion will be hit hard as they not only lost their two leading receivers, they lost height as well. Two of the projected starters this yr are 5'8 and 5'10 compared to the 6'5 Samardzija and 6'2 McKnight. The OL is hit very hard by departures as they lose four very experienced linemen, this will be a very young position.
 
My power ratings have ND at -1.5...

Your power ratings need a little adjusting, methinks....

All right, I'll bite.

Coaching Matchup : I've read enough of your posts on the various boards to know that while you are still young and have a bit to learn, you know that this is a huge mismatch. Chan Gailey could easily be mistaken for someone who is functionally retarded, while Fat Charlie Weis is arguably one of the ten best coaches in the college game. HUGE Advantage : ND

Defense : You might laugh at this, but I think ND's defense is gonna be pretty good this year. I've been a big fan of new DC Corwin Brown dating back to his days with Groh at UVa, as he has always been a great motivator and has pretty much excelled at every position he's been in over the past 7 years. He's going to switch the defense up to a 3-4, which I don't typically like at the college level, but it really allows ND to focus the defense on their strengths (speed at LB and depth at the DBs). With that said, GT has the best DC in the college game right now in Tenuta, so much so that even with the loss of some of their talent I would still say that he will have the Jackets ready every game this year. Advantage (although not as big as some might think) : GT

Offense : Again, with the departure of Reggie Ball, one would think that this offense will only get better. The problem is, they also lost the best player in college football and one of the better running backs in the ACC (and his primary backup) along with him. Ball's successor, Taylor Bennett, showed promise in the bowl game last year and looks to be a definite upgrade, but who is he going to throw the ball to? James Johnson is definitely a second-banana type receiver, lacking impressive size or speed, and it would be unfair to think that he will be able to help carry the offense. It also does not help that Chan Gailey, who meddles heavily in everything involving the offense, is the worst playcaller this side of the Grohs in Charlottesville. On the other side, the Domers are also breaking in basically a whole new offensive team outside of the OL, which returns 3. Flanked by the OL is the best TE in the country, Carlson, who flew under the radar last year surrounded by all the big names, but was huge when they needed tough yards. The skill positions are all a mystery, with Clausen looking to be the pick at QB so he can get started early picking up the offense. The receivers are all young but very talented, touted recruits who will have to step up to help whichever inexperienced QB gets thrown into the fold. RB is also stacked with inexperienced talent, with Aldridge and Thomas looking the best coming out of the spring. This is too close to call, as I don't expect big things out of either of these units, so I have to say Advantage: EVEN

Intangibles : ND has homefield here, which has been big for them since Weis has been in town, losing only 3 games at their house despite the tough schedule. ND also has recommitted to special teams and should not have the kind of trouble they have had in the past, but that remains to be seen and should be a question heading into this one. GT does have a lot more returning than the Domers and should benefit quite a bit from that in the first game of the season

Overall : ND should be a 4-6 point favorite here and rightfully so. People are not going to be expecting much out of them this year and the team has a chance to grow and develop without Heisman and national title hype following them throughout the season. I look for them to win a sloppy, boring game against a Jacket team that will struggle to win 6 on their tough schedule this season.
 
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I'm still trying to figure out if you're in love with Notre Dame, or just hate GT. Either way, you are probably the only one who thinks that's very far off...
 
i don't think lindy is far off at all on his power ranking making notre dame -1.5. my power ranking made GT minus 1 and i have notre dame with a 4 point homefield. someone could easily consider that field worth more than 4. As i have said before i will take Gt at 4 or better but the more i have looked at this game the less appealing it is becoming. there are more promising games to bet. the idea that this gt offense can go into south bend and blow out the irish seems unlikely.
person A : "i talked to reggie ball yesterday"
person B : " what did he have to say ?"
person A : " he just wanted to know if i wanted to super size my order"
 
I'm still trying to figure out if you're in love with Notre Dame, or just hate GT. Either way, you are probably the only one who thinks that's very far off...

Neither, just read above. I know the ACC quite well and think you are vastly overrating the Jackets this season.
 
The OL is hit very hard by departures as they lose four very experienced linemen, this will be a very young position.

Dont' know where you're getting this info but it is wrong. Sullivan, Young, and Duncan all have started numerous games at ND and are on the team this season.
 
Dont' know where you're getting this info but it is wrong. Sullivan, Young, and Duncan all have started numerous games at ND and are on the team this season.


Sam Young I will give you since he played 292 minutes and had 13starts as true frosh. I must of mised that one maybe.

Duncan I won't give you as he has played 108minutes in 2years. Not sure how many of these minutes have come against the service academy's either.

But gone are Santucci (13starts LY...2yr starter), Harris (13starts LY...4yr starter), Morton (13starts LY...4y starter). Also gone is the chemistry this unit had since playing together.
 
Offense : Again, with the departure of Reggie Ball, one would think that this offense will only get better. The problem is, they also lost the best player in college football and one of the better running backs in the ACC (and his primary backup) along with him.

=====Last I checked 1,534 yard rusher Tashard Choice is back.


GT gameplan is simple...

With 4 starters back on the OL and 8 of their top 10 it is no secret they are strong there. They hike the ball and they turn around and give it to Choice and let him pound the shit out of the ball. ND will be controlled on the L.O.S and GT will run for about 200yards as a team. They will ease Bennett and the passing game along and Choice will be able to carry the load early.
 
=====Last I checked 1,534 yard rusher Tashard Choice is back.


GT gameplan is simple...

With 4 starters back on the OL and 8 of their top 10 it is no secret they are strong there. They hike the ball and they turn around and give it to Choice and let him pound the shit out of the ball. ND will be controlled on the L.O.S and GT will run for about 200yards as a team. They will ease Bennett and the passing game along and Choice will be able to carry the load early.

Got me there, I remember seeing him listed as a senior last year, but apparently that was academically and not eligibility as he transferred and redshirted a season.

The second point I disagree with. People so easily forget how focused teams were on CJ last year to the point that it looked like Reggie Ball had a decent season and Choice was able to have some great games against bad defensive teams like Maryland, NCSU, UNC, and WVU. Don't get me wrong, he's certainly a good back, but he won't have the benefit of the biggest threat in CFB on the outside to take off some of the pressure. Also, the new OC Bon that replaced Nix runs a very conservative, short passing game management offense that is not going to stretch the field much like they did last year, which should keep some focus on the box in games against them.

I want to reiterate that I do NOT think much of either of these teams and would not be shocked to see an ugly shitfest of a game that is decided by a FG or 4 points either way. I was merely arguing the fact that this line had no business being set at 1.5, and as we saw it opened much higher and seems to have settled on a more reasonable number at 3, which I expect will wind up at 4 by kickoff.
 
Galt, what all do you know about Bond? I know that NIU ran all the time because they had one of the MACs best OLs and one of the MACs best backs every year he was there, but I know nothing of his actual play calling ability or strategy. I don't like seeing frosh on the DL for Notre Dame, even if they are huge and highly thought of. Young lines always make me nervous.

For ND's part, they have their work cut out for them, not just in week 1, but really in the first three weeks as they be will facing some mighty fast front sevens. And for that reason as a quasi-Irish fan I would almost prefer to see Jones in there. I don't know much about the mobility of either Clausen or Sharpley, if they are statuesque then they are fucked.

From a line standpoint I consider GT to be about 1.5 or 2 points better, which means depending on what you assign for home field ND should be favored in the 1-3 department. Anything over 3 is inappropriate given the nature of these two offenses this season (inexperienced and conservative.) If it goes to 3.5, 4 or more its strictly money for God's Team and not actual football value. I think your shitfest prediction is likely to be an accurate one.

With the new old clock rules what type of a total are we looking at? Mid-40s?
 
Mid 40s might be a little high. 17-13 either way?

Why GT 1-3 points better? Just because their QB has started a game, or because their OK offensive line has experience? From all accounts I hear their defensive backfield is a mess, so that quick pass rush might not be able to get to Clausen/Jones if the ball is coming out quick against bad coverage. Again, not casting votes for the Irish here, but just because a team has experience does not necessarily mean they are going to be good or better. It might just mean that they don't have anybody better to play in that position.

Hand is a hot talent who coached two completely different styles of offense over the past 5 years. He ran a pass-happy offense that threw the ball pretty much every other play at Army, where they had a lot of success picking people apart short. Then he went to NIU where he ran the ball 65% of the time and was able to win games by managing the clock and field position. It appears that he wants to do the same thing at Tech, where he's looking for Taylor Bennett to run a control offense and pound Choice for the majority of the game to keep Tenuta's defense out of trouble. I don't think this is necessarily a bad strategy apart from the fact that I think Tenuta's defense is not going to be what it was in the past couple years. No more Kenny Scott, no more KaMichael Hall, and no more Joe Anoai, who are the only guys they lost but might have been the best 3 players on defense outside of Wheeler. I'll be interested to see if the magician can keep these guys playing at the level that they have the last 3 years.
 
West Virginia first half, anything under 2 Td's is gold.

FSU and Clemson will be a PK imo.
 
Why GT 1-3 points better? Just because their QB has started a game, or because their OK offensive line has experience? From all accounts I hear their defensive backfield is a mess, so that quick pass rush might not be able to get to Clausen/Jones if the ball is coming out quick against bad coverage. Again, not casting votes for the Irish here, but just because a team has experience does not necessarily mean they are going to be good or better. It might just mean that they don't have anybody better to play in that position.

The areas of a team that I look at most closely are QB,OL, and DL and GT has an edge (of varying size) in all three of those categories, but I think their DL is worlds better than the correlating Irish unit as of right now.

In the final analysis, talent might prove to be about equal, but experience has to count for something and in this case the experience is one-sided in favor of the Jackets.
 
GAR !!!!! you ahve basically just stated the number one key to winning handicapping at college football :

The areas of a team that I look at most closely are QB,OL, and DL

That has been the secret to my success anyways. They aren't the only factors but they are the most important.
 
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