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LIV Tour

Inspekdah

Friend of CTG
You seem really angry about this whole thing which is strange for 2 reasons...first it doesn't affect you at all, second you keep saying how little you care about it. Weird flexes but okay.

I've watched a decent amount of golf since the pandemic started. That's about it. I wouldn't say I don't care about it. I just find it pathetic the guys they're poaching. You can almost call it out. The entire roster was 25-1 to win @ the US Open. Since 2020 I haven't found more unlikable guys than Beefcake and Blake. And less talented guys form-wise than Phil or DJ.

I will say it's absolutely bs that PGA and the media get away with calling it Saudi money - when it affects their pocketbooks. But we can't say the same about Chyna with NBA because - again - has financial consequences. Only claim human rights foul when it benefits your wallet.
 

KJ

Mayor of Nap
Passed up over a half billion...
Wasn't he offered around 900 million? Hard to blame him for passing it up and not being able to physically perform most of the time, would absolutely trash his legacy. Tough to pass up that number but even personally I have to think it could only make him look terrible in the public eye. He's still clearly a sympathetic figure considering the issues he's had.
 

Gandolf

Leader of the Van Buren Boys
I will say it's absolutely bs that PGA and the media get away with calling it Saudi money - when it affects their pocketbooks. But we can't say the same about Chyna with NBA because - again - has financial consequences. Only claim human rights foul when it benefits your wallet.
Totally correct. Last winter the PGA Tour had no trouble with tour pros playing in Saudi Arabia in February as long as they got a quid pro quo in future commitments to Pebble Beach. So the whole human rights morality aspect is a total farce IMO.

 

RBTrojan

Well-Known Member
Wasn't he offered around 900 million? Hard to blame him for passing it up and not being able to physically perform most of the time, would absolutely trash his legacy. Tough to pass up that number but even personally I have to think it could only make him look terrible in the public eye. He's still clearly a sympathetic figure considering the issues he's had.
I think it comes down to how much money do you really need? He’s already a billionaire. He has his charities up and running… what does 900 million more do for him? His work ethic and being able to play on the pga tour allowed him to create this net worth. Why turn your back on the entity that made you the person you’ve become? What’s the benefit of limping around in 10-14 events a year, most of which he would probably finish in the middle of the pack.
 

KJ

Mayor of Nap
I think it comes down to how much money do you really need? He’s already a billionaire. He has his charities up and running… what does 900 million more do for him? His work ethic and being able to play on the pga tour allowed him to create this net worth. Why turn your back on the entity that made you the person you’ve become? What’s the benefit of limping around in 10-14 events a year, most of which he would probably finish in the middle of the pack.
Think of what it would do to a brand that will continue well beyond his lifetime and I believe he's interested in designing courses in the near future. Obviously the TW Foundation would take a hit too. Spend your entire life to do what will make you happy in the second half there is no reason to mess that up.
 

Gandolf

Leader of the Van Buren Boys
The top PGA Tour players will now have:

Tournament of Champions in Hawaii
Eight $20 million money grab events, scattered throughout the season
A handful of WGC Championships
FedEx Cup postseason
PIP money

Seems like they're trying to out-LIV LIV. Which is curious considering the players that have been outspoken have talked more about the thrill of intense competition than the big guaranteed money.
 
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KJ

Mayor of Nap
The top PGA Tour players will now have:

Tournament of Champions in Hawaii
Eight $20 million money grab events, scattered throughout the season
A handful of WGC Championships
FedEx Cup postseason
PIP money

Seems like they're trying to out-LIV LIV. Which is curious considering the players that have been outspoken have talked more about the thrill of intense competition than the big guaranteed money.
Think the only major the PGA can prohibit them from playing is the PGA 'ship right? Obviously the Open won't, USGA gets to make the call on the US Open, pretty sure Augusta makes the call on the Masters.
 

Gandolf

Leader of the Van Buren Boys
Think the only major the PGA can prohibit them from playing is the PGA 'ship right? Obviously the Open won't, USGA gets to make the call on the US Open, pretty sure Augusta makes the call on the Masters.
The PGA Tour owns no majors. PGA of America owns the PGA Championship, which is why club pros get in the field every year. PGA Tour broke off from PGA of America back in the '70s, ironically. PGA Tour's most prestigious tourney is the Players. They also own the President's Cup, while the PGA of America co-owns the Ryder Cup with the R&A.

PGA Tour has working relationships with the PGA of America, USGA, Augusta National and the R&A, and I think they were hoping those groups would step in line behind them. But those groups don't step in behind, they lead the way. And I don't see any of them closing the door on LIV as a knee-jerk reaction to the PGA Tour running around saying the sky is falling. Which is probably why the Tour is stepping up their perks for their star players.
 

King Slap

CTG Honorary Super Moderator
The PGA Tour owns no majors. PGA of America owns the PGA Championship, which is why club pros get in the field every year. PGA Tour broke off from PGA of America back in the '70s, ironically. PGA Tour's most prestigious tourney is the Players. They also own the President's Cup, while the PGA of America co-owns the Ryder Cup with the R&A.

PGA Tour has working relationships with the PGA of America, USGA, Augusta National and the R&A, and I think they were hoping those groups would step in line behind them. But those groups don't step in behind, they lead the way. And I don't see any of them closing the door on LIV as a knee-jerk reaction to the PGA Tour running around saying the sky is falling. Which is probably why the Tour is stepping up their perks for their star players.
Interested to see what the Masters does

@Gandolf sorry I didn't read your post thoroughly lol
 

Gandolf

Leader of the Van Buren Boys
I'd be interested in seeing where the PGA Tour is going to come up with another $160 million to hand over to their top players. Like KJ said they already have WGC events which do a similar task for the top 60 or so, and none of those have gotten close to a $20 million pot. I thought this was the most interesting part of that CBS Sports article:

The other interesting part to this development is that there has not been any apparent push from players for this. Part of the allure of LIV Golf is that golfers can play fewer events for more guaranteed money in the form of contracts. It doesn't matter where Dustin Johnson and Bryson DeChambeau finish at LIV Golf events because they get paid either way. This move by the PGA Tour would potentially see stars play more tournaments than they already play -- depending how many current events are simply elevated and how many are added into the year -- for no contractually guaranteed money at all.

"I think there's enough programs in place that benefit the top players right now, PIP program, the Comcast Top-10, the FedExCup bonus, all of those things are designed to funnel more money into the top players' pockets," said Rory McIlroy at the Wells Fargo Championship last month. "You play the best, and the cream should rise to the top by the end of the year. That's why Comcast Top-10, FedExCup bonus money is so high. And then you add the PIP in there for the people that make the biggest impact on the Tour."

Now, top players might have to add to their schedules to build up their regular-season wealth. Part of the reason for this is that the PGA Tour is a 501c(6) organization, which means it is tax exempt and thus must get creative with how it pays its constituents.
 

gps_3

Well-Known Member
The PGA Tour owns no majors. PGA of America owns the PGA Championship, which is why club pros get in the field every year. PGA Tour broke off from PGA of America back in the '70s, ironically. PGA Tour's most prestigious tourney is the Players. They also own the President's Cup, while the PGA of America co-owns the Ryder Cup with the R&A.

PGA Tour has working relationships with the PGA of America, USGA, Augusta National and the R&A, and I think they were hoping those groups would step in line behind them. But those groups don't step in behind, they lead the way. And I don't see any of them closing the door on LIV as a knee-jerk reaction to the PGA Tour running around saying the sky is falling. Which is probably why the Tour is stepping up their perks for their star players.
PGA Championship requires the participants to be members of a "recognized" tour, so they can effectively bar the LIV guys by refusing to recognize the tour. But if LIV events get OWGR points, it's hard to imagine the majors willingly banning top players. I think the PGA has already lost, and the sooner they realize it the more they can soften the blow. This new fall series thing will help some, but I think if they don't create a path for players to play both tours, it will get away from them
 

jedi ninja

Aka Larry
The top PGA Tour players will now have:

Tournament of Champions in Hawaii
Eight $20 million money grab events, scattered throughout the season
A handful of WGC Championships
FedEx Cup postseason
PIP money

Seems like they're trying to out-LIV LIV. Which is curious considering the players that have been outspoken have talked more about the thrill of intense competition than the big guaranteed money.

This is setting up nicely for the PGA guys to get exactly what they’ve wanted and the reason some have jumped ship to LIV. They can say whatever they’d like publicly, but they want that money.
 

twinkie13

Golden sponge cake with a creamy filling
Guys today on radio say the PGA rode the easy Tiger train for too long and got caught butt naked

Sounds right from a high view
 

jedi ninja

Aka Larry
This Monahan presser is something else. He seems to be stammering, making excuses and almost just making stuff up. This LIV tour has the PGA Tour shook and it’s very, very evident at this point in time.

He just tried to say the little 8 tourney thing they announced with 45 million in purses was planned all along and has been in the works for 2 years. They asked where the money came from since he just answered a question about PGA players and their pay being maxed out (or that the players got all of the money available)…he claims the sponsors have been asking how they could help and are essentially footing the bill.

Right, it’s not that the PGA was holding back, it’s that they decided 2 years ago to add this money and then somehow just announced it after the LIV defections. Seems legit.

What a clown show.
 

jedi ninja

Aka Larry
Says he didn’t underestimate the LIV and then wouldn’t answer if they would work with LIV in the future…he said he couldn’t answer a hypothetical and then went on a tangent/rant about the PGA wanting the best players, best competition, blah, blah, blah. (But then did answer a hypothetical question about a partnership with Premier League golf)

He also earlier said that Brooks and he spoke on Monday and he still hasn’t heard anything “official” from Koepka about him leaving.
 

Gandolf

Leader of the Van Buren Boys
Time for Monahan to get to the negotiation table and try to work out an amicable solution. Protect your 20 best tournaments, allow for cross entries, and sue for peace.

Besides the majors, LIV schedule should work around these events in all years:

1-2 Hawaii back to back
3 Torrey Pines
4 Pebble
5 Riviera
6 Bay Hill
7 Sawgrass
8 WGC Match Play
9 Harbour Town
10 Avenel MD
11 Quail Hollow
12 Byron Nelson
13 Colonial
14 Memorial
15 Canadian Open
16-18 3 weeks of FedEx playoffs
19 CJ Cup
20 Zozo Championship
So instead of shoring up 20 events he's shoring up 8. He's throwing places like Harbour Town, Avenel, Colonial and the Canadian Open under the bus. He's turning the PGA Tour into horse racing, with a dozen big stakes weekends where the best horses run surrounded by many weeks of maiden claimers and weak allowance fields. I hope the networks enjoy the variety.
 

KJ

Mayor of Nap
So instead of shoring up 20 events he's shoring up 8. He's throwing places like Harbour Town, Avenel, Colonial and the Canadian Open under the bus. He's turning the PGA Tour into horse racing, with a dozen big stakes weekends where the best horses run surrounded by many weeks of maiden claimers and weak allowance fields. I hope the networks enjoy the variety.
If I never see Harbour Town again it will all be worth it
 

DaddyMcIlhon

Well-Known Member
So instead of shoring up 20 events he's shoring up 8. He's throwing places like Harbour Town, Avenel, Colonial and the Canadian Open under the bus. He's turning the PGA Tour into horse racing, with a dozen big stakes weekends where the best horses run surrounded by many weeks of maiden claimers and weak allowance fields. I hope the networks enjoy the variety.
Yes I think this is potentially another problem they are creating. You’re diminishing other tournaments and weakening those fields. The sponsors are footing the bill? Really? Are the sponsors of the tournaments not lucky enough to be in the elite 8 helping too? I doubt it. Basically, like it or not, Phil was right. PGA tour has been screwing the players all along. I hope guys like Rory and JT, Rahm, who pledge it’s not about the money, thank Phil for blackballing himself so they can all play for more money.

Honestly, this whole thing could’ve been avoidable if Monaghan had just played ball and let players do what they’ve always been able to do - play where they want. He created a lot of this mess with this whole holier than thou narrative. He was so worried about these smaller, John Deere type, tournaments being diminished by LIV, and now it’s the PGA themselves who are diminishing it by banning LIV players and also now by practically begging the top guys to skip those events (since there’s so much money in the bigger events, what’s the point of playing for $8 when you’re playing for $25?).
 

KJ

Mayor of Nap
Yes I think this is potentially another problem they are creating. You’re diminishing other tournaments and weakening those fields. The sponsors are footing the bill? Really? Are the sponsors of the tournaments not lucky enough to be in the elite 8 helping too? I doubt it. Basically, like it or not, Phil was right. PGA tour has been screwing the players all along. I hope guys like Rory and JT, Rahm, who pledge it’s not about the money, thank Phil for blackballing himself so they can all play for more money.

Honestly, this whole thing could’ve been avoidable if Monaghan had just played ball and let players do what they’ve always been able to do - play where they want. He created a lot of this mess with this whole holier than thou narrative. He was so worried about these smaller, John Deere type, tournaments being diminished by LIV, and now it’s the PGA themselves who are diminishing it by banning LIV players and also now by practically begging the top guys to skip those events (since there’s so much money in the bigger events, what’s the point of playing for $8 when you’re playing for $25?).
Those are exhibition though. Guys still have to play in a minimum number of events to go w/o penalty and even qualify for the FedEx tournament I believe. Think it's a lot deeper than what you're seeing.
 

DaddyMcIlhon

Well-Known Member
Those are exhibition though. Guys still have to play in a minimum number of events to go w/o penalty and even qualify for the FedEx tournament I believe. Think it's a lot deeper than what you're seeing.
Most of the top guys have no problem qualifying for the Fed Ex. They could easily drop 4 events and still make it. There’s no denying that this new format will weaken some of the events that are already weak.
 

KJ

Mayor of Nap
Worst thing the PGA Tour can do is try to go toe to toe with Saudi Arabian oil money, they will lose 110% of the time

Gotta work on satisfying the current "employees" more than they can offer. Fortunately there's enough history and stability they can do it without flashing strictly money as a motivator.
 

KJ

Mayor of Nap
Most of the top guys have no problem qualifying for the Fed Ex. They could easily drop 4 events and still make it. There’s no denying that this new format will weaken some of the events that are already weak.
But they have to play in a certain number of actual events w/o penalty. Happened to Spieth and it should be no issue to maintain that requirement.
 

KJ

Mayor of Nap
Let's be real, the PGA could easily say "play in X amount of events" or you don't qualify for the FedEx.
 

Gandolf

Leader of the Van Buren Boys
Sounds like they're cutting the FedEx playoffs down to top 70 first tourney, then top 50, then top 30. Also they're lower the season long exemption down from top 125 to top 70.
 

KJ

Mayor of Nap
Sounds like they're cutting the FedEx playoffs down to top 70 first tourney, then top 50, then top 30. Also they're lower the season long exemption down from top 125 to top 70.
Tour exemptions and the structure could be a semester long class.
 

KJ

Mayor of Nap
Phil has got to be smiling right now.
Unless he's got a date with his bookie

Phil was the biggest sham of this whole thing. He's 51, they started with a senior. Disregard his words (which were despicable, and I'm a Man City fan) he has the headline marketing of Carrot Top at this point.
 

RBTrojan

Well-Known Member
I really hope this situation doesn’t splinter the game and eventually make the PGA unwatchable. Football season cannot come fast enough this year…
 

DaddyMcIlhon

Well-Known Member
Unless he's got a date with his bookie

Phil was the biggest sham of this whole thing. He's 51, they started with a senior. Disregard his words (which were despicable, and I'm a Man City fan) he has the headline marketing of Carrot Top at this point.
Phil called out the PGA tour and said this was the only shot to leverage them. If you put his stupid comments about the saudis aside, he was right. He leveraged them and the pga made changes.
 

KJ

Mayor of Nap
Phil called out the PGA tour and said this was the only shot to leverage them. If you put his stupid comments about the saudis aside, he was right. He leveraged them and the pga made changes.
Maybe correct, but LIV has gotten guys that aren't overly marketable on the PGA Tour at this point

Not sure the Tour has done anything but cut dead weight
 

KJ

Mayor of Nap
IF, and it's a big if, LIV is actually entertaining I guess it could be worth a watch

But it's not only a hard pass with this roster right now, it's a worse lineup than a regular season MLB game
 

DaddyMcIlhon

Well-Known Member
IF, and it's a big if, LIV is actually entertaining I guess it could be worth a watch

But it's not only a hard pass with this roster right now, it's a worse lineup than a regular season MLB game
Whether LIV is watchable or not is a separate conversation. The roster at this point is… ok. They’re gonna have to do a lot more than they did last time to keep my interest. I’m talking backstage access, mics on players, different camera angles and presentation, shit introduce me to these guys.. tell me something I don’t know. I mean.. what they rolled out last time was just regular old golf with worse players. If they’re gonna be the game changer they claim to be they better start changing the way it looks.
 

KJ

Mayor of Nap
Whether LIV is watchable or not is a separate conversation. The roster at this point is… ok. They’re gonna have to do a lot more than they did last time to keep my interest. I’m talking backstage access, mics on players, different camera angles and presentation, shit introduce me to these guys.. tell me something I don’t know. I mean.. what they rolled out last time was just regular old golf with worse players. If they’re gonna be the game changer they claim to be they better start changing the way it looks.
Oh wow, first review I've heard

Will not watch it unless it becomes more than an exhibition for millions in my mind, no clue what that will take
 

DaddyMcIlhon

Well-Known Member
Oh wow, first review I've heard

Will not watch it unless it becomes more than an exhibition for millions in my mind, no clue what that will take
If they get more top talent and have a platform to show them (a network) people will watch.

I mean.. does the average golf fan really know the difference between Bay Hill and Harbour Town? The courses need to be good, but they’re secondary imo. They need top talent and they need somewhere for people to find them other than YouTube.

Then.. they need something for them to be playing for other than money. Maybe a championship or something after the series? Some type of playoff, maybe match play? Something different. Also they have to get OWGR points. Without that they’re dead.
 

gps_3

Well-Known Member
The timing is suspicious, but the PGA Tour did just sign a huge new TV deal that goes into effect next year. So it’s not like they were sitting on a pile of money like Phil alleged, they are increasing payouts as revenue increases. As a non-profit, I’m sure their books are pretty closely monitored.
 
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RBTrojan

Well-Known Member
Sounds like Matt Wolff is next to switch over. He’s had a weird career so far
Hard to believe not too long ago he was mentioned in the same breadth of Morikawa and Hovland. He’s made three cuts this calendar year. He’s also had two rounds out of 27 that have broken 70. This move actually makes a lot of sense if he’s getting a decent signing bonus.
 

gps_3

Well-Known Member
Hard to believe not too long ago he was mentioned in the same breadth of Morikawa and Hovland. He’s made three cuts this calendar year. He’s also had two rounds out of 27 that have broken 70. This move actually makes a lot of sense if he’s getting a decent signing bonus.
Coming out of college he was thought to be the best of the three. I think he was the #1 on that OSU team of which Hovland was a member. I watched them trounce Alabama in the finals that year. Gankas sure did elevate his status on Wolff’s back. Regardless of my thoughts on LIV, I’m pulling for Wolff
 
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