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Let's talk lockout...

teejay

Well-Known Member
it's my first spring living in AZ so I'm excited to spend some time at spring training games so they need to get their shit together
 

jedi ninja

Sir Lawrence
I want MLB to be like the NFL where every team has the same chance to win.

Salary caps won't allow that to happen, at least not alone. I'm sure you're also for a salary floor...meaning owners can't be cheap pieces of shit and not spend ANY money either, right?

The problem is that the money that many owners have gotten through the luxury tax isn't spent on making their teams more competitive. These guys aren't owning sports teams to make money, or I should say they don't need the money from the sports team to continue being who they are.

Not to mention, with all of the exceptions, "rules," and everything else that leagues with salary caps have...it's almost like they don't really have a salary cap at the end of the day. No sport has a hard cap that someone could figure out in an hour...every sport has multitudes of levels to the "salary cap" that makes cap guys more important than many other positions in a franchise...which is a joke.
 

jedi ninja

Sir Lawrence
The players want to get rid of the luxury tax not the majority of owners who are for harsher penalties for exceeding it.

But again, the ones who are for harsher penalties are more than likely the ones who benefit from the penalties and then do NOTHING with the money.
 

brewers888

Chicken Little
But again, the ones who are for harsher penalties are more than likely the ones who benefit from the penalties and then do NOTHING with the money.
Why should the Orioles spend big when they have two teams in their own division who will always have twice the payroll. Unless you are small market Tampa and run nearly perfectly you are at a huge disadvantage facing the big market teams. Meanwhile in the NFL you see Green Bay win while a large market team like the Jets loses 10 plus games every year because winning in the NFL is all about having the right front office and coaching while baseball is all about who spends the most.
 

jedi ninja

Sir Lawrence
Why should the Orioles spend big when they have two teams in their own division who will always have twice the payroll. Unless you are small market Tampa and run nearly perfectly you are at a huge disadvantage facing the big market teams. Meanwhile in the NFL you see Green Bay win while a large market team like the Jets loses 10 plus games every year because winning in the NFL is all about having the right front office and coaching while baseball is all about who spends the most.

Why should you spend the free money you're given by those teams you mentioned? Is that a serious question or are you being funny?

Who said they had to spend big anyway? The point was there has to be a minimum if there is a maximum. There has to be a floor if there's a ceiling.

Baseball isn't about who spends the most though, I know that sounds cool and it does happen where the top spender wins the WS, but go back and look...what you're saying isn't necessarily true. Correlation doesn't equal causation. As with everything, it's more nuanced that simple proclamations about payrolls...take the emotion out of it and look at it objectively.

 
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brewers888

Chicken Little
Why should you spend the free money you're given by those teams you mentioned? Is that a serious question or are you being funny?

Who said they had to spend big anyway? The point was there has to be a minimum if there is a maximum. There has to be a floor if there's a ceiling.

Baseball isn't about who spends the most though, I know that sounds cool and it's happened a few times, but go back and look...what you're saying isn't necessarily true. Correlation doesn't equal causation. As with everything, it's more nuanced that simple proclamations about payrolls...take the emotion out of it and look at it objectively.

Why should the Orioles spend say 120 million when that still isn't half of what the Red Sox and Yankees are capable of spending. Unless you are run like Tampa you aren't beating those teams on a consistent basis.

I am fine with a minimum payroll as long as it comes with a cap.
 

jedi ninja

Sir Lawrence
Why should the Orioles spend say 120 million when that still isn't half of what the Red Sox and Yankees are capable of spending. Unless you are run like Tampa you aren't beating those teams on a consistent basis.

I am fine with a minimum payroll as long as it comes with a cap.

Because they're getting free money from the other teams and their owner doesn't own the Orioles to make a living.

I'm just curious, and I'm genuinely asking this question...is there a reason you initially said "spend big" and now are using 120 million as an example? Did you look at what the Orioles payroll is currently? 120 million is FOUR TIMES what they spend now, so I'm not sure that a hypothetical salary "floor" would be anywhere near 120 million. It just seems you're making it sounds a lot worse than it would be to make a point, as opposed to using real numbers and not talking in superlatives.

What if the floor was 60, or 75 million? Would that be unfair to ask a franchise to spend that when they're getting free money already and many, many, many teams spend double that already.
 

brewers888

Chicken Little
Because they're getting free money from the other teams and their owner doesn't own the Orioles to make a living.

I'm just curious, and I'm genuinely asking this question...is there a reason you initially said "spend big" and now are using 120 million as an example? Did you look at what the Orioles payroll is currently? 120 million is FOUR TIMES what they spend now, so I'm not sure that a hypothetical salary "floor" would be anywhere near 120 million. It just seems you're making it sounds a lot worse than it would be to make a point, as opposed to using real numbers and not talking in superlatives.

What if the floor was 60, or 75 million? Would that be unfair to ask a franchise to spend that when they're getting free money already and many, many, many teams spend double that already.
If you want a salary floor it must be accompanied with a hard cap. As long as their is a cap a floor is fine by me even if it penalizes teams like Tampa who magically win on a shoestring budget.
 

jedi ninja

Sir Lawrence
If you want a salary floor it must be accompanied with a hard cap. As long as their is a cap a floor is fine by me even if it penalizes teams like Tampa who magically win on a shoestring budget.

Yes. That's what I've said all along, lol. It was the entire premise for the floor...if you're going to have a cap you need to have a floor.

The point was there has to be a minimum if there is a maximum. There has to be a floor if there's a ceiling.
 

Tin&Lint

Well-Known Member
Can’t believe they are not addressing the pace of the game, although I suppose perhaps that could be done outside the cba.

Silly to think the two sides are in a work stoppage, and aren’t even discussing the two major issues that will drive the trajectory of the sport:
1) Hard salary cap/floor: Yes or No
2) Speed up pace of play

On #1, good debate on here. True that payroll doesn’t exactly correlate with winning the WS, but I agree with @brewers888 that the problem is the small market teams. If you live in Baltimore or Pittsburgh, you can ignore the sport of baseball. In the NFL, all teams have hope eventually.

On #2, kids these days DO NOT watch baseball. Period. Maybe playoffs. Anyone with young kids can attest. Game is too slow. One pitch in a 60-second span is dreadful. After each pitch, the batter has to step out and adjust batting gloves (even though he didn’t swing), and catcher has to look for pitch signs from the dugout (god forbid they call their own game). It’s brutally slow, for nonsense reasons. Society has changed (faster) and baseball has gone the opposite direction (slower). Cable subscriptions are propping up the sport, but this will eventually catch up with mlb.
 

2daBank

Dan The Prop Assassin Man
these mfers better pull their heads out of asses and get the shit done today, they start scratching games and they gonna lose me, they lose me they in real trouble cause i love baseball a lot more than normal folks!!
 

KJ

KJ is my name, naps are my game.
these mfers better pull their heads out of asses and get the shit done today, they start scratching games and they gonna lose me, they lose me they in real trouble cause i love baseball a lot more than normal folks!!
They are all Jake from State Farm in a month
 

2daBank

Dan The Prop Assassin Man
They are all Jake from State Farm in a month

i guess the only upside to them fucking this up is, last time we got the steroid era to bring ppl back, that was fun! maybe if they drive us all away once again they will do some things to help the sport when they finally start playing!! lol... i really would like to ignore the entire season the minute they scratch a game, the problem is i need to bet bases! i might cap and bet but i wont tune into a single freaking game!! luckily i dont have to watch bases to bet them!!
 

KJ

KJ is my name, naps are my game.
i guess the only upside to them fucking this up is, last time we got the steroid era to bring ppl back, that was fun! maybe if they drive us all away once again they will do some things to help the sport when they finally start playing!! lol... i really would like to ignore the entire season the minute they scratch a game, the problem is i really need to bet bases! i might cap and bet but i wont tune into a single freaking game!! luckily i really dont have to do so to bet it!
Let's be honest, it hasn't been a game that's watchable in years given our attention spans

Without gambling baseball might as well be bowling
 

2daBank

Dan The Prop Assassin Man
Let's be honest, it hasn't been a game that's watchable in years given our attention spans

Without gambling baseball might as well be bowling

i like watching baseball still, even tho it has gotten tougher. i watch bowling also tho! and i dont even bet that! lol
 

2daBank

Dan The Prop Assassin Man
been thinking lately i dunno why i dont bet bowling! lol. mostly cause i never know when it on and live! that probably only thing stopping me! i almost always stop and watch when i see it on tho.
 

KJ

KJ is my name, naps are my game.
i like watching baseball still, even tho it has gotten tougher. i watch bowling also tho! and i dont even bet that! lol
Feels like I need to send you a number of someone I know

I guess STL runs 2nd to Reno for bowling capital, do you watch chess too? STL is boss for chess which is a game I don't get, but the video of Maurice Ashley is legend! STL guy!

 

2daBank

Dan The Prop Assassin Man
Feels like I need to send you a number of someone I know

I guess STL runs 2nd to Reno for bowling capital, do you watch chess too? STL is boss for chess which is a game I don't get, but the video of Maurice Ashley is legend! STL guy!


cant watch chess, i used to play a little but wouldnt say im very good at it. thinking ahead isnt exactly a strong suite of mine which no doubt limits me a ton! lol. i can beat ppl who suck with aggressiveness but that doesnt work against better players.

i love to bowl so watching bowling has never bored me. kinda annoys me when i see guys on tv i think im as good as! in reality my strike ball might be close to some the crappier ppl but obviously not close to as consistent where i could actually play with them the entire week to score well enough to make a show, despite my delusions of grandeur i know this! lol. plus im awful at picking spares, probably something i could do well enough if i actually practiced it! even when i bowled a ton back in the day i never bothered practicing spares for some reason, just not that fun i guess.
 

KJ

KJ is my name, naps are my game.
cant watch chess, i used to play a little but wouldnt say im very good at it. thinking ahead isnt exactly a strong suite of mine which no doubt limits me a ton! lol. i can beat ppl who suck with aggressiveness but that doesnt work against better players.

i love to bowl so watching bowling has never bored me. kinda annoys me when i see guys on tv i think im as good as! in reality my strike ball might be close to some the crappier ppl but obviously not close to as consistent where i could actually play with them the entire week to score well enough to make a show, despite my delusions of grandeur i know this! lol. plus im awful at picking spares, probably something i could do well enough if i actually practiced it! even when i bowled a ton back in the day i never bothered practicing spares for some reason, just not that fun i guess.
Watch that video and laugh your ass off
 

2daBank

Dan The Prop Assassin Man
Watch that video and laugh your ass off

its freaking insane how fast they make their moves, i gotta stare at board like a retard, they finished game faster than i would make 4-5 moves, lol.
 

KJ

KJ is my name, naps are my game.
its freaking insane how fast they make their moves, i gotta stare at board like a retard, they finished game faster than i would make 4-5 moves, lol.
Maurice teaches inner city youth in STL about how the logic of chess can make them better people and ultimately stay out of harm's way

He's incredible
 

2daBank

Dan The Prop Assassin Man
Maurice teaches inner city youth in STL about how the logic of chess can make them better people and ultimately stay out of harm's way

He's incredible

most the little gang bangers around here would just find a way to use the "logic of chess" to take their block over! lol. all ya can do it try tho!!
 

KJ

KJ is my name, naps are my game.
most the little gang bangers around here would just find a way to use the "logic of chess" to take their block over! lol. all ya can do it try tho!!
He commands a classroom

I've watched a couple hour long sessions with him and am enamoured
 

brewers888

Chicken Little
these mfers better pull their heads out of asses and get the shit done today, they start scratching games and they gonna lose me, they lose me they in real trouble cause i love baseball a lot more than normal folks!!
You will be back as soon as games are played as will I and every other real fan of the sport.
 

wiseplayer

Well-Known Member
You will be back as soon as games are played as will I and every other real fan of the sport.
Agree the avid fan will keep watching but everyone else could turn this off. The season is too long as it is. May is the better time to start especially weather wise.
 

brewers888

Chicken Little
Agree the avid fan will keep watching but everyone else could turn this off. The season is too long as it is. May is the better time to start especially weather wise.
It’s the only thing to watch in the summer. The sport will be fine and the fans will come back as they have every other time.
 

2daBank

Dan The Prop Assassin Man
You will be back as soon as games are played as will I and every other real fan of the sport.

False. Took me years to come back from ‘96 or whatever year it was they cancelled WS, granted I wasn’t quite the gambler I am today but I won’t tune into or go to 1 game this year, fuck them, I’m done,
 

2daBank

Dan The Prop Assassin Man
Too long a season or not this the time I want it, doesn’t matter how much they shorten it will still be Aug and sept when I don’t really care. Now I’m just not gonna care at all since they don’t.
 

2daBank

Dan The Prop Assassin Man
It’s the only thing to watch in the summer. The sport will be fine and the fans will come back as they have every other time.

Maybe there no sports to watch on tv but there plenty of other shit to do! I love baseball but I can certainly live without it and how much time do they really own anyways? Nba finals go well into June, August we all gearing up for football, don’t think baseball has some huge cushion to be alienating their dwindling fan base and get away with it, apparently they as cocky bout it as you seem to be confident but we shall see. It took awhile and steroids to win fans back in 90s, think they been losing ground since then anyways so they playing with fire. I might love baseball but I’m also stubborn, they test my resolve and they see how I’ll abandon them and im sure im not alone. We have plenty of entertainment options, I’ll be damned if I invest any my time or money in a sport who’s lousy owners and players can’t figure out a way to split up billions of dollars without screwing us out of a normal season. Im already over it, I said if they scratched any season I’d be done and I meant it. Heard jerkoff commissioner on news say opening day was cancelled so fuck them, I’m out and I hope others do the same till the league dies, figuratively, while I can only hope the ppl responsible die literally in a slow and painful way!
 
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KJ

KJ is my name, naps are my game.
Maybe there no sports to watch on tv but there plenty of other shit to do! I love baseball but I can certainly live without it and how much time do they really own anyways? Nba finals go well into June, August we all gearing up for football, don’t think baseball has some huge cushion to be alienating their dwindling fan base and get away with it, apparently they as cocky bout it as you seem to be confident but we shall see. It took awhile and steroids to win fans back in 90s, think they been losing ground since then anyways so they playing with fire. I might love baseball but I’m also stubborn, they test my resolve and they see how I’ll abandon them and im sure im not alone. We have plenty of entertainment options, I’ll be damned if I invest any my time or money in a sport who’s lousy owners and players can’t figure out a way to split up billions of dollars without screwing us out of a normal season. Im already over it, I said if they scratched any season I’d be done and I meant it. Heard jerkoff commissioner on news say opening day was cancelled so fuck them, I’m out and I hope others do the same till the league dies, figuratively, while I can only hope the ppl responsible die literally in a slow and painful way!
It's 110 degrees here and unless the Dbacks are worth a shit I'm not watching. A million other things to do like scope out the sundress scene and just live, Summer is so great it doesn't need a sport.
 

2daBank

Dan The Prop Assassin Man
It's 110 degrees here and unless the Dbacks are worth a shit I'm not watching. A million other things to do like scope out the sundress scene and just live, Summer is so great it doesn't need a sport.

We generally do something memorial weekend then 4th of July weekend regardless but I’ve passed on some June camping trips or weekends at my buddies who lives down at lake of ozarks just cause I was rolling with mlb and didn’t want to fuck up my zone! Lol. Silly I know, not like I need to watch but can’t really do the daily capping on camping trip, could still pull it off at lake since we stay at his house but usually drinking/parting too much and don’t have the desire to spend few hours in mornings crunching numbers when could be loading up the boat or taking jet skies out! Now that I’m doing brick and mortar pretty much exclusively I def would have passed on several weekends this year! Not anymore, should make the old lady happy, think I even caught a smirk on her face when I saw them announce canceling opening day and was cussing at tv bout being done with bases earlier! Lol.
 

KJ

KJ is my name, naps are my game.
I worked an entire Summer at the Lake when I was 20 and had a fake ID...did the gas dock at Millstone. Obviously an incredible Summer but the best was going to a podunk titter when my buddy turned 21 at midnight and he couldn't get served while I'm slamming beers with my fake. They were so low rent, only 3 strippers and all had the flapjacks, it was pitiful but great at the same time! Man that Summer would have its own 4 chapters in my biography. Got stalked by a married Asian chick and that was fucked up. She was the serial killer type, her husband was a marine. No wonder we need resumes to bang anymore.
 

brewers888

Chicken Little
False. Took me years to come back from ‘96 or whatever year it was they cancelled WS, granted I wasn’t quite the gambler I am today but I won’t tune into or go to 1 game this year, fuck them, I’m done,
As a bettor you will watch like everyone else here because it’s the only thing to bet in the summer. If you have the discipline to stay away good for you but I know I will be watching from the first pitch of the season.
 

2daBank

Dan The Prop Assassin Man
As a bettor you will watch like everyone else here because it’s the only thing to bet in the summer. If you have the discipline to stay away good for you but I know I will be watching from the first pitch of the season.

If I bet it I don’t really have to watch to do so. Baseball pretty much all numbers capping for me. Didn’t say I wouldn’t bet, I’d like to totally boycott but I kinda count on winning money on mlb. Lol.
 

wiseplayer

Well-Known Member
Owners aren’t going to budge and it’s a matter of these players feeling the financial squeeze and that would only be felt by the bottom half of the pay scale.
Fuck these players is my take on this all.
 

jedi ninja

Sir Lawrence
Shocking that the media carries the unions water. Fact is the sport needs big revenue sharing and a cap like the NFL has. The Yankees and Dodgers shouldn't have automatic playoff spots just because they can carry payrolls at least twice as high as the small market teams.

You keep falsely claiming the issue is the payrolls of the bigger market teams. Here’s a decent breakdown of the lies Manfred keeps spreading…but first a little snippet from the article…

MLB has a payroll disparity problem not because of the top end but rather because of the bottom of the scale. Teams like the Pirates, Rays, Guardians, Marlins, and others take in more in revenue sharing than they spend on payroll. Frankly put, the recent high rates of sharing -- 48 percent of local revenues -- means that small-market teams have very little skin in the game. The best way to boost gameday revenues is to invest in the on-field product and improve the roster. Small-market teams, however, receive so much money via revenue sharing that they have little incentive to invest in player payroll. Basically, teams on the lower end of the revenue continuum are guaranteed profitability regardless of on-field results. That's not healthy.


MLB lockout: Fact-checking commissioner Rob Manfred's press conference announcing delay of 2022 Opening Day
 

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