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Coaching Carousel Thread Time...

Joe Public

Gabibbo's Finest
ESPN headline:
1 minority and no black coaches hired.

does anyone really think it’s racist?
I’m being serious.
*raises hand*

Not so much overt and intentional racism as racism through familiarity and opportunity. Meaning, would any one of these teams hire a Black coach? Of course. But when they go to vet these guys and ask around, the majority of the people they're asking are white. The guys they trust are white. The coaching trees they come from are white. So it ends up being sort of self-sustaining institutional racism.

This isn't really going to change much until we start getting more diversity in the front office and Black coaches at senior coaching levels in both college and the NFL. It's also why the fact that EB hasn't been hired really sticks out. Because you've had all your excuses taken away from you. He's an OC, he has a ring, he has Andy Reid to vouch for him—and the Andy Reid coaching tree behind him. So when you see guys with far less than that jumping the line it's like, OK, what's going on.

Although, in his specific case there seem to be some questions about his time back at Colorado. Like how much did he know about when that program had some bad shit going on.

But the larger point is, until you get more guys at that level DC/OC, on staffs of coaches with serious cred, the easier it will be for one white front office guy to call another white front office guy and be like, 'Hey, so your QB coach, he seems like a good dude, right?' And so the short answer to the question of is racism to blame is yeah, pretty much. But is it specifically racist? You can argue no.
 

twinkie13

Principal at Newman
*raises hand*

Not so much overt and intentional racism as racism through familiarity and opportunity. Meaning, would any one of these teams hire a Black coach? Of course. But when they go to vet these guys and ask around, the majority of the people they're asking are white. The guys they trust are white. The coaching trees they come from are white. So it ends up being sort of self-sustaining institutional racism.

This isn't really going to change much until we start getting more diversity in the front office and Black coaches at senior coaching levels in both college and the NFL. It's also why the fact that EB hasn't been hired really sticks out. Because you've had all your excuses taken away from you. He's an OC, he has a ring, he has Andy Reid to vouch for him—and the Andy Reid coaching tree behind him. So when you see guys with far less than that jumping the line it's like, OK, what's going on.

Although, in his specific case there seem to be some questions about his time back at Colorado. Like how much did he know about when that program had some bad shit going on.

But the larger point is, until you get more guys at that level DC/OC, on staffs of coaches with serious cred, the easier it will be for one white front office guy to call another white front office guy and be like, 'Hey, so your QB coach, he seems like a good dude, right?' And so the short answer to the question of is racism to blame is yeah, pretty much. But is it specifically racist? You can argue no.
I’ll keep it short. If Bienemy is that good, he’d be hired. It’s 30 jobs so it’s competitive for sure.


I liken it to Pete Carmichael with the Saints.

I do appreciate you chiming in Joe P hope all is well
 

Joe Public

Gabibbo's Finest
I’ll keep it short. If Bienemy is that good, he’d be hired. It’s 30 jobs so it’s competitive for sure.


I liken it to Pete Carmichael with the Saints.

I do appreciate you chiming in Joe P hope all is well

It's a fair point. And I have read about the CU stuff, which, if true makes it sound like there was kind of a mini-Baylor situation going on there for a while and maybe that's it.

Also, there seems to be a lot of stress on (and Cap would know better on this than me) that it's Reid who calls the plays so that would take some shine off EB.

But, from a Birds standpoint, Duce is sitting right there. I'm just saying. =)
 

guaranteeed

CTG Moderator
Staff member
It's a fair point. And I have read about the CU stuff, which, if true makes it sound like there was kind of a mini-Baylor situation going on there for a while and maybe that's it.

Also, there seems to be a lot of stress on (and Cap would know better on this than me) that it's Reid who calls the plays so that would take some shine off EB.

But, from a Birds standpoint, Duce is sitting right there. I'm just saying. =)
That and I posted it a page back, Reid coaching tree isnt really great
 

guaranteeed

CTG Moderator
Staff member
I don't get the McDaniels move if its happening

He hasn't been 'cutting edge' on any offensive scheming since pre Denver, when he had Brady and Randy Moss, and his cutting edge was...

RANDY run a go route, Tom throw to Randy
 

2daBank

VC's Valentine
I know it a crock of shit you not a head coach already Bieniemy but for love of god please say no if Texans offer you that shitty job! Last thing you want to do is jump into a unmanageable no win situation!
 

2daBank

VC's Valentine
I’m not a fan of these PC douchbags listing off white coaches who have got jobs as if they wernt deserving. I understand there should be more black head coaches but it ignorant to say “Mcvey was only 32” as if he wasn’t a great hire!!! Lafluer was a great hire! Just cause they white now they wernt qualified just cause not enough black guys get chances?
 

2daBank

VC's Valentine
if they wanna pick apart a white guy hire wtf is dan cambell all about? dont even know who the fuck that guy is, tight end coach? rah rah guy? way to go lions, hitting another home run!!!! mfers have yet to hire anyone as good as the coach they fired who happened to be black, lol..id bet my left nut if/when Bieniemy gets a chance he be better than this stiff..
 
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Reactions: KJ

detroit187

Well-Known Member
if they wanna pick apart a white guy hire wtf is dan cambell all about? dont even know who the fuck that guy is, tight end coach? rah rah guy? way to go lions, hitting another home run!!!! mfers have yet to hire anyone as good as the coach they fired who happened to be black, lol..id bet my left nut if/when Bieniemy gets a chance he be better than this stiff..
Def a rah rah guy. Part of me likes what he’s doing, jaded part of me sees how this will go oh so wrong and his quotes will be jokes long after he’s canned.
 

2daBank

VC's Valentine
Def a rah rah guy. Part of me likes what he’s doing, jaded part of me sees how this will go oh so wrong and his quotes will be jokes long after he’s canned.

I really don’t know anything about him so it not fair for me to say but given ya’ll history and what I read I obviously and unfortunately for ya’ll lean to the latter at the moment. Hope I’m wrong, I hate terrible run teams.
 

detroit187

Well-Known Member
I really don’t know anything about him so it not fair for me to say but given ya’ll history and what I read I obviously and unfortunately for ya’ll lean to the latter at the moment. Hope I’m wrong, I hate terrible run teams.
It’ll probably never change until Fords sell team. It’s a cash cow, one of many family business ventures and don’t seem to care too much if they win. And Ive met some Ford family members over the years, they don’t dispute that, at all.
 

2daBank

VC's Valentine
It’ll probably never change until Fords sell team. It’s a cash cow, one of many family business ventures and don’t seem to care too much if they win. And Ive met some Ford family members over the years, they don’t dispute that, at all.

even browns seem to have finally lucked into a coach finally, maybe some day!! Lol
 

detroit187

Well-Known Member
Ladies and gentlemen here is your newest Detroit Lions head coach. Pure Michigan.... Looks and sounds like he's from downriver. Rah Rah guy. This is why this is the worst organization in pro sports history. Wtf



River rats! This will get a lot of the fan base pumped up for change. It’s like taking a WR early, when you took one the year before, just a ploy to get asses in the seats.
 

Capaholic

Well-Known Member
Just a reminder to the EB doesn’t call plays crowd, Nick Sirianni has never called plays. Nor has he won much of anything.

And you got that jackass in Detroit now.

people can say “they heard EB doesn’t interview well”, I call bullshit. Listen to his weekly pressers and tell me he is gonna fold in a room getting asked questions. Guy should have a job before several of these coaches, bottom line.
 

HUNT

CTG Partner
Just a reminder to the EB doesn’t call plays crowd, Nick Sirianni has never called plays. Nor has he won much of anything.

And you got that jackass in Detroit now.

people can say “they heard EB doesn’t interview well”, I call bullshit. Listen to his weekly pressers and tell me he is gonna fold in a room getting asked questions. Guy should have a job before several of these coaches, bottom line.


Eb doesn't call plays. That's a fact. But the rest of it, I agree with.
 

Capaholic

Well-Known Member
I'd be happy as hell if I'm a chiefs fan and Eb doesn't get a gig.

I will be disappointed for him but happy to have him on our team still... But our last 2 OC did not call plays, and one won a Super Bowl, the other has made the playoffs 2 of 3 years. By every account possible, Andy calls the plays, EB provides much of the game planning and nuances of blocking assignments, route tree, etc. Would love to keep him but like my own coworkers, I want to see people who deserve promotions get promotions. The excuses they make for EB when guys like Campbell, Sirianni, even Staley, hell even Urban get these jobs is just not consistent in my opinion. Robert Saleh put in his time, developed a dominant unit, guy deserved his job. I also have the advantage of watching lots of BTS footage that the Chiefs in house film crew has done over time and I just think he’s going to be a heck of a head coach. I hope he’s Andy’s replacement in about 5 years Though I want Andy for life.
 

2daBank

VC's Valentine
I will be disappointed for him but happy to have him on our team still... But our last 2 OC did not call plays, and one won a Super Bowl, the other has made the playoffs 2 of 3 years. By every account possible, Andy calls the plays, EB provides much of the game planning and nuances of blocking assignments, route tree, etc. Would love to keep him but like my own coworkers, I want to see people who deserve promotions get promotions. The excuses they make for EB when guys like Campbell, Sirianni, even Staley, hell even Urban get these jobs is just not consistent in my opinion. Robert Saleh put in his time, developed a dominant unit, guy deserved his job. I also have the advantage of watching lots of BTS footage that the Chiefs in house film crew has done over time and I just think he’s going to be a heck of a head coach. I hope he’s Andy’s replacement in about 5 years Though I want Andy for life.

agree with all that. For being billionaires some these owners suck something serious at running a fb team. I think teams passing on him for some these bums are crazy! It certainly be in your best interest for him to be Andy replacement, seamless. Never bothered me he doesn’t call the plays, everyone knows Andy a incredible teacher and ya gotta be a moron if you haven’t learned being with him so long.
 

HUNT

CTG Partner
I will be disappointed for him but happy to have him on our team still... But our last 2 OC did not call plays, and one won a Super Bowl, the other has made the playoffs 2 of 3 years. By every account possible, Andy calls the plays, EB provides much of the game planning and nuances of blocking assignments, route tree, etc. Would love to keep him but like my own coworkers, I want to see people who deserve promotions get promotions. The excuses they make for EB when guys like Campbell, Sirianni, even Staley, hell even Urban get these jobs is just not consistent in my opinion. Robert Saleh put in his time, developed a dominant unit, guy deserved his job. I also have the advantage of watching lots of BTS footage that the Chiefs in house film crew has done over time and I just think he’s going to be a heck of a head coach. I hope he’s Andy’s replacement in about 5 years Though I want Andy for life.


Man, 5-10 years ago if someone said they'd want Andy Reid for life, they'd be laughed out the room.

Great guy. So happy for him.
 

Joe Public

Gabibbo's Finest
makes sense with him running the offense wentz was best in. Thought it was gonna be McDaniel, not sure if that was gonna be bad or good just thought that who it be.

I think this is it. I don't know enough about this guy to say this is a bad hire. But it does very much feel like Roseman threw out Pederson because Pederson wanted more power—so Roseman just replaced him with a younger version of the guy who won him an SB. Which is along way of saying I think the problem in Philly is likely the GM.

Also, because Wentz's contract makes him basically untradeable, at least right now without Wentz stepping up to help with a restructure, this hire makes sense. Even if I have no idea if it will work or if Wentz can be rehabbed. My hope is honestly that Wentz does restructure, they do move him to Indy, and we move on. But this hire screams Jalen Hurts just got sent back to the bench.

It also really suggests that the Texans are going to hire EB. Which still might not keep Watson on their team. Hahahaha.
 

KJ

KJ is my name, naps are my game.
You gotta hope that the real problem with Wentz was his relationship w/Pederson JoeP

To think that Hurts is a better pro QB than Wentz would be laughable at best, need Carson to right the ship with the new guy
 

Joe Public

Gabibbo's Finest
You gotta hope that the real problem with Wentz was his relationship w/Pederson JoeP

To think that Hurts is a better pro QB than Wentz would be laughable at best, need Carson to right the ship with the new guy

Physically? Probably. The problem with Wentz seems to be mentally in the near term (his confidence is obviously shot) and personality in the long-term (apparently he's an entitled dick who, oh btw, lost the locker room to the point where vets on the OL told Pederson it was time to bench the guy).

I don't know if I'm in the minority or not, but I do think Wentz can be rehabed. But I'm not convinced he can be rehabed in Philly.

Also, Jalen is super raw and who knows what he'll be, but I think if you really wanted to find out, you'd have hired EB or Kafka, someone from that staff who saw how they did it with Maholmes. Or at least a coach like that who could maximize the guy's skills. Instead you brought in a guy from Indy where they specifically and intentionally went away from Brissett to bring in more of a pocket passer. Which again suggests Philly is all in on Wentz, for better or worse.
 

2daBank

VC's Valentine
I think this is it. I don't know enough about this guy to say this is a bad hire. But it does very much feel like Roseman threw out Pederson because Pederson wanted more power—so Roseman just replaced him with a younger version of the guy who won him an SB. Which is along way of saying I think the problem in Philly is likely the GM.

Also, because Wentz's contract makes him basically untradeable, at least right now without Wentz stepping up to help with a restructure, this hire makes sense. Even if I have no idea if it will work or if Wentz can be rehabbed. My hope is honestly that Wentz does restructure, they do move him to Indy, and we move on. But this hire screams Jalen Hurts just got sent back to the bench.

It also really suggests that the Texans are going to hire EB. Which still might not keep Watson on their team. Hahahaha.

from backwards to top, I trust as long EB has waited there no way he takes Texans job unless he talks to watson 1st and he on board. I honestly think it more media talk than anything bout watson leaving, he can demand a trade all he wants but they don’t have to do it, in the end ain’t he gonna show up to collect his check like rest of us who hate their jobs for a whole lot less?

I don’t think Philly has any choice but to get wentz right, I think he still plenty capable but I dunno how it ever works in Philly long as all the players who obviously don’t like him are shipped out along with pederson! Far as Dougie concerned if that was his decision to bench hurts last game of year he deserved to be fired just for that for a ton of reasons, most prominent being he already has one high paid star qb on bench then he alienates the kid who was apparently replacing him? Wtf? Lol. I never thought and still don’t think hurts a long term nfl qb, by all accounts he has a incredible work ethic tho so not saying he couldn’t be.

I initially thought wentz to Indy made tons of sense and it does for him but from what I’ve heard and read I think it far more likely Indy looks to move up in this draft to get their qb as their gm from kc knows all about the build your team 1st then pull that trade up for a mahomes model (prob not him but I’m sure there others, I know ppl who think that lance kid has all those tools, I have no clue).. Even if they love wentz I think they love the idea of a qb on a rookie deal so they can take care all the good players they have and build that way. I’d assume their prob a kid they like and can get where they need to be as they to a point I’m sure they be fine giving up long term draft capitol, not many holes. I think lot of college QBs could look good on Indy!! Why pay wentz and start getting all the talent you already acquired picked off in free agency? Unless wentz takes hell a pay cut I don’t see it, he prob should but doubt he willing. Not that I can blame him, depends what you want out of life, I wouldn’t care if I lingered around sucking till got all that money and took my fat ass to the beach for rest of life to spend my money!! Lol.

I dunno anything bout the guy Eagles hired either Cept he frank riech guy who obviously likes wentz and wentz that offense, all I know dudes gonna have to be hell a culture guy in Philly cause he needs lot of fucks with money to start buying in for a change! Only way that gets fixed, everything else a disaster imo.
 

2daBank

VC's Valentine
You gotta hope that the real problem with Wentz was his relationship w/Pederson JoeP

To think that Hurts is a better pro QB than Wentz would be laughable at best, need Carson to right the ship with the new guy

I think that some of it but I think a bigger problem is for whatever reason wentz has never seemed to command respect in that locker room, I wouldn’t be shocked if someone told me he was a douche. Agree totally he the better talent but Philly gonna have to do a lot more house cleaning or this guy gonna have to be a incredible culture builder, which I assume would still mean cutting bait with some those Philly players cause I think they have issues all over that locker room.
 

2daBank

VC's Valentine
Physically? Probably. The problem with Wentz seems to be mentally in the near term (his confidence is obviously shot) and personality in the long-term (apparently he's an entitled dick who, oh btw, lost the locker room to the point where vets on the OL told Pederson it was time to bench the guy).

I don't know if I'm in the minority or not, but I do think Wentz can be rehabed. But I'm not convinced he can be rehabed in Philly.

Also, Jalen is super raw and who knows what he'll be, but I think if you really wanted to find out, you'd have hired EB or Kafka, someone from that staff who saw how they did it with Maholmes. Or at least a coach like that who could maximize the guy's skills. Instead you brought in a guy from Indy where they specifically and intentionally went away from Brissett to bring in more of a pocket passer. Which again suggests Philly is all in on Wentz, for better or worse.

I didn’t read this one till I responded and mentioned wouldnt shock me if ya told me wentz was a total douche. Philly got other problem guys also tho, cause that shouldn’t stop them from doing their jobs!! I think there a bunch of entitlement to go around in Philly since winning the SB and all the chirping telling Patriots how they should do it! They want it to be fun in Philly!! Well they found out losing not fun but too much fun pretty much ensures that one season be a fluke, now they all point fingers and since wentz didn’t play in playoffs he a easy mark imo. Like I said, they need a total culture overhaul or no qb will work.
 

cubsker

Sort of a Big Deal
All I know is that they were a way better team with hurts than Wentz this year. Wentz was horrible.
 

2daBank

VC's Valentine
All I know is that they were a way better team with hurts than Wentz this year. Wentz was horrible.

that is true but I think it was a product of hurts being different and no film to some degree. I also think there was a clear and obvious uptick by rest of team which a huge freaking problem. I’m sure wentz at least partially responsible but they should all do their jobs regardless. I never worked less hard when it was for or with a prick. I even remember having a qb I couldn’t stand one year as a kid but would never make me give a shit less about how I played. I’m certainly not excusing wentz at all I just think there some blame to go around for the why and ultimately it falls on pederson, not to mention benching hurts last game was a unforgivable offense imo.
 
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